C7 - Accessory Directory?

[NewsArchive]

C7 is impressive! A few bugs to work out, but with wide distribution now, I
expect they will be taken care of very quickly!

I've started rebuilding my installs to include Clarion 7, and want to make
sure I've got this right. Looking at the Redirection file and file
structure for Clarion 7, it looks like we should install in the C:\Program
Files\SoftVelocity\Clarion7\accessory directory. Using this directory
instead of creating a 3rdParty folder would not require an edit to the
developers redirection file.

Is this what other developers are doing?
If so, how do I amend the SetupBuilder Clarion7 default selection directory
to include "Accessory"?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Roe
www.valutilities.com

[NewsArchive]

NO Bill

You have to insdtall to %ROOT%/etc etc .... and certainely NOT a fixed
c:\wahtever

yes some bright boys came out with changing 3rdparty to accessory and
another bright boy came up with "win" (and I am sure"net" for others)

Those ruined all the 3rdParty selelrs existing installers but who cares
after all .....

Bill, check the sb NG as Friedrich was again kind enough to come up with a
ready made demo on how to install c6 or c7 and he has the solution to your
pb .....

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

> Those ruined all the 3rdParty selelrs existing installers but who cares
> after all .....

It was a widely, and lengthily, discussed agreement between a large
number of 3rd party developers and was adopted by SV so 3rd party was
not left with the job of creating the folder hierarchy. It was a
change we requested before the product was shipped and has been in
place since well before the AppGen.

\win is in place to discern between win32 and dotNet components.

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Senility has a silver lining, you eventually forget you forgot.
-- Lee White, 2008(I think)

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

This Russ had told me already :)

But when you all decided to have "accessory" instead of "3rdparty" did you
not think about your installers and consequences for dual installs ?

Wether SV creates or not accessory or 3rdParty is the same

Whether it exists or not is the same because Setup Builder vreates the dirs
if they do not exist

And how come all this "consortium" of thinking heads (just a bit sarcastic
and not pejorative of course with all due respect) did not oppose to having
another subdir added "win" which again creates havvock in installers ?

If SV wants to place "net" then good enough as template for NET will NEVER
EVER be sold for clarion 6 so no problems as you all would need to CREATE
new installers

Now we are sitting with _sorry but I call this a stupid situation created
without thinking twice_ where ALL installers have to be redone entirely

Sorry if my "big mouth" again disturbs some but if I am wrong please do show
me why and how

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> But when you all decided to have "accessory" instead of "3rdparty" did you
> not think about your installers and consequences for dual installs ?

No need for dual installs:) It is actually very simple to take care of:)
Download the demo that Friedrich posted recently and use that. I converted
3 C6 installs yesterday to be both C6 and C7. I had started out with dual
installs since it wasn't that much of a deal for me, but when I checked out
the "Clarion Template Deployment.sb6" demo from Friedrich that he posted on
the sb newsgroup, I realized how simple this could be:)

See:

Newsgroups: softvelocity.clarion.addons.setupbuilder
Subject: SetupBuilder 6.9 Build 2454 #PRE-RELEASE#
Date: 23 Dec 2008 10:50:31 -0500

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Arnor,

NOW that Friedrich took the trouble to get us ALL out of this mess it is
easy
Thank you

Does not answer my question : who invented that idea-concept and why was it
adopted without thinking of ALL installers having to be redone ?

But forget it ... I am sure communication this time will work as well as
when we ask SV .....

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

JP,

I know you are wanting to target someone, so target MS. Won't do you any
good, but it should make you feel better <g>.

> Does not answer my question : who invented that idea-concept and why was
> it adopted without thinking of ALL installers having to be redone ?


--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype Clarion chat: http://tinyurl.com/2273lm

[NewsArchive]

Russel,

I do not give a xxx about "targeting" someone

When I find something stupid i say it and if you do not like it then simply
say so instead of always trying to find something wrong with my post

If you find the same thing intelligent then please give us your reasons and
you may get me to change my mind if your reasons are good ones

Asking me to ask MS why SV decided to spoil all the installers by not only
accepting "your" idea of changing 3rdParty to accessory but also to add
"win" just to be able to also have "net" is again stupid because this only
depends on you guys and SV ..... and it proves once again no one thought
twice about all the community but only of their small world.

If you do not want to answer then simply say so instead of always trying to
send the ball back on me : I am not (and you should know it since the time
we play this ridiculous game) a kid you can toss around , so grow up change
attitude or forget my posts and do not bother answering them

Maybe the idea I have of a community is not what it is and maybe I do give
too much time and efforts and help when I should not - because the type of
community you are taking us into is not a good one

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

JP,

First of all: chill.

Two: You need to listen to what people are telling you, they are giving you
very good information. That information is filling in some knowledge you
don't have (always a good thing) and giving you data so you can change
something for the better.

Three: No one that I can tell replying to your posts put you down or
belittle you. Some of your posts however come across in an accusatory tone,
so you may want to double check things before hitting the "Send" button.
These posts from what I see almost always miss the correct target. Your
calling 3rd party vendors "stupid" because you don't agree with a decided
standard is a good example of what I'm talking about.

Four: You need to be willing to change some things. You may not like or
want to, but you need to ask yourself if an improvement results or something
you need to learn so you don't put yourself in a position to make changes
later. Its understood you want to produce the best code you can (we all
do).

Five: No one has the monopoly on good ideas. Be willing to see other's
viewpoints.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype Clarion chat: http://tinyurl.com/2273lm

[NewsArchive]

I am willing to see others good ideas .....please please please
Russel...what is the reason who got "some" to come up with what I call
'stupid' (please note I did not call the people stupid but only the idea so
reading before using send is a two way road it seems) idea of changing all

I'm only asking to learn ..... and am only receiving general no-answers

So I am sure it is way better for all not to carry on as you do not seem to
understand my poor english

let it be Russ .....

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

No problem, I use %Root%. I was just sighting an example to show the
"accessory" directory.

Thanks,

Bill Roe
www.valutilities.com

[NewsArchive]

Bill,

Everything you install should go under the accessory folder (JP's answer is
not correct). See attached for how I'm doing List & Label installs. You add
the two major Clarion versions in the "Features" tree node. Then for the
"Setup Types" underneath it, just check which one is appropriate. For
example, check Clarion7 for the Clarion 7 feature.

Then its a simple matter of processing the script (clip3.gif attached).

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype Clarion chat: http://tinyurl.com/2273lm

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Russ. I'll give it a go.

Bill Roe
www.valutilities.com

[NewsArchive]

Russ,

Sorry again (getting tired of excusing myself these days) but what is wrong
in my answer please ?
i'm keen on learning....like for the IDE

using %ROOT% and not hard coded c:\etc ... ?
please note that I did not say to install under ROOT but NOT to hardcode
......

advising him to check the SB NG where freidrcih was kind enough to come out
witrh a full demo for dual installs because of this (stupid) new way on
registering templates ?

.......

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> i'm keen on learning....like for the IDE

The only thing that _I_ do not put in %root%\accessory is the examples,
which go into CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softveolocity\Clarion
7\Icetips\ProductName and .hlp and .dll files which go into
CSIDL_PROGRAMFILES_COMMON\Icetips Creative\Clarion\Bin and then I add that
folder to the PATH.

The reason for the examples is Vista. I don't want to generate stuff into
Program Files folders, so I place the examples in the common docs folder.

The reason for the common is that the .hlp and .dll must be in a folder that
is in the PATH environment var. Since there was no consensus about where to
place them and I'm already using the common in other products I decided to
place them there.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Which is a good thing :)

Your installers allow users to place them where they want pls ?

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Russ,

> Everything you install should go under the accessory folder (JP's answer is

Not quite. C7 examples should not go into the accessory folder since under
vista you would not be able to generate. I place them in
COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion 7\Icetips\Productname. I believe that
was agreed upon on the beta group but yesterday when I was trying to find it
I couldn't. Until someone suggests better, that's where my examples go<g>

Everything else that I install goes into accessory except for .hlp and .dll
which go into CSIDL_PROGRAMFILES_COMMON\Icetips Creative\Clarion\Bin which
also is added to the PATH

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

I didn't include data files in that answer. But that seems as good as place
as any (especially under Vista). I forget the registry key name for that,
but once I get some examples ready for List & Label, I'll probably follow
your example. ;-)

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype Clarion chat: http://tinyurl.com/2273lm

[NewsArchive]

Arnor,

Whatever:\Clarion 7
Use root and ALL your troubles are gone

Anyway honestly do you many devs installing a dev tool in program files ?

Where did you install (if you have it ) for example SQL Server or Visual
Studio etc ?

I (and many I know) always place all those "important" apps under their own
root or better in another partition under their root eyc .....makes life so
much easier

But till then your way is easiest ....

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> Anyway honestly do you many devs installing a dev tool in program files ?
>
> Where did you install (if you have it ) for example SQL Server or Visual
> Studio etc ?

Well, I have all this under the recommended "Program Files" folder ;-) And
I really like the new security concept in Vista (which protects me and my
customers). I don't install software that does not go into "Program Files".

Installing to a "non-protected" folder (e.g. c:\clarion 7) under
Vista/2008/Win7 makes it too easy for malicious objects (like viruses and
spyware) to be installed - often without the user knowing. And due to the
devious nature of Trojans and Spyware (intentionally written malicious
software) - it often happens in a very hidden way - making it hard to combat
the attackers intrusion in the first place. I don't want to see viruses
embed dangerous code into my Clarion 7 runtimes or Visual Studio, etc.
libraries ;-)

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

You may be right ..... but this means we all discovered trojans etc since
Vista came out ?
Meaning all the softs out there protecting against them are weaker then
Microsoft's inbuilt protection ?

May I doubt this point and prefer to rely on a reputable companies (and I am
not talking of norton and other "general public" ones) for those rather then
on Microsoft's "protection" (ie : close a directory and say out loud the OS
is protected - a bit childish (let's say it's also called marketing) , no ?)

So I will "stupidly" carry on installing all my apps in a seperate partition
and clarion being my favorite tool will always carry on having it's own
partition and my sources etc being all under also their own partition so as
to be able to use acronis trueimage and have images done four times a day as
I do not want to lose more than a couple of hours work in case.....



--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> You may be right ..... but this means we all discovered trojans etc since
> Vista came out ?

Sorry, but that's not the point ;-)

> Meaning all the softs out there protecting against them are weaker then
> Microsoft's inbuilt protection ?

In this case, Yes!

> May I doubt this point and prefer to rely on a reputable companies (and
> I am not talking of norton and other "general public" ones) for those
> rather then on Microsoft's "protection" (ie : close a directory and say
> out loud the OS is protected - a bit childish (let's say it's also
> called marketing) , no ?)

No, it's not marketing (IMO)! If you do what Microsoft recommend, then you
are already very well protected under Vista and 2008. And installing to
C:\Clarion7 is NOT recommended. Why? Because any application that is
running un-elevated can modify your runtimes and libraries that are used to
develop your software. And it's nearly impossible to detect it. The
runtime is infected and you send your application to thousands of customers
worldwide.

Can it also happen with UAC enabled and your development system located in
"Program Files"? Yes, absolutely. But in this case, you gave permission to
a suspect program that does it. Or one of your trusted vendors was not so
trustworthy as could be hoped.

Fact is, installing to "un-protected" folders open doors to friends and
foes.

> So I will "stupidly" carry on installing all my apps in a seperate
> partition and clarion being my favorite tool will always carry on having
> it's own partition and my sources etc being all under also their own
> partition so as to be able to use acronis trueimage and have images done
> four times a day as I do not want to lose more than a couple of hours
> work in case.....

In the end, it's your decision where to install it :) But it is really not
"wise" to do so. I think we all here in the newsgroup will switch to
Windows 7 to develop (and not only to test!) our software when Windows 7
goes Gold. Official beta testing for Win7 will begin sometime around
January 7th, 2009 as Steve Ballmer is making a Pre-CES keynote. We are part
of the official internal Windows 7 beta team and I can assure you that
Windows 7 will be (without any doubt) the best Windows OS ever. Fast,
secure, ***y. But of course, we'll still have UAC in Win7 to protect us.
It's not there to annoy us, it's there to protect us, our work and our
customers.

My $.02

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

not too "difficult" to type "wise" <vbg> ?

student JP, copy hundred times : "I am a bad boy and must not answer back to
my teachers!" .......

let us put things differently then : for the past 3 years (stopped a month
back now after you sent in your "formating team" <bg>) I have used 2003 ent
srv as a dev machine with NO protection from BigBrother in the OS and all
was fine (used some outside tools of course)

why, Monsieur ?

could I be wrong when I think that if a newer OS is only protected when
using their "protected" dirs then maybe the complete OS is weaker then older
ones ?
asked a stupid old idiot .....

you said it is not "marketing dialet" but it smells like a lot like that to
me (but again I am a poor and lonely old badboy)

well anyway ... I will carry on and I will take the risk of infecting the
entire world with hacked DMC versions because if we all start thinking
Microsoft way then the next step , after codesigning apps we will also
require to "see" for ourselves the hd partition and layout of Norton and
Adobe etc.... before accepting to install their apps on our machines

let's all team up and create this new "security" level and impose it on the
world - let's make a fortune on others gullibility .... others do it , why
not us afterall ?

<bg>
--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

>
> not too "difficult" to type "wise" <vbg> ?
>

<VBG> Thanks to my therapy sessions, I can even type "InstallShield" now
<g>

> student JP, copy hundred times : "I am a bad boy and must not answer back
> to my teachers!" .......
>
> let us put things differently then : for the past 3 years (stopped a month
> back now after you sent in your "formating team" <bg>) I have used 2003
> ent srv as a dev machine with NO protection from BigBrother in the OS and
> all was fine (used some outside tools of course)
>
> why, Monsieur ?

But it was already there! The protected "Program Files" folder is part of
Windows for 10+ years now!!! Nothing new here in Vista, 2008 or Windows 7
;-)

> could I be wrong when I think that if a newer OS is only protected when
> using their "protected" dirs then maybe the complete OS is weaker then
> older ones ?
> asked a stupid old idiot .....

With all due respect, but you are wrong. The resource "protection" is there
for 10+ years now. "Limited Users" do not have write access to "Program
Files" and "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE" and the Windows folder, etc. for 10+ years
now!!!!! But quite a few developers never cared. That's why most of them
have all the problems and trouble in Vista now. They never followed the
rules nor did they follow the Microsoft guidelines.

> you said it is not "marketing dialet" but it smells like a lot like that
> to me (but again I am a poor and lonely old badboy)
>
> well anyway ... I will carry on and I will take the risk of infecting the
> entire world with hacked DMC versions because if we all start thinking
> Microsoft way then the next step , after codesigning apps we will also
> require to "see" for ourselves the hd partition and layout of Norton and
> Adobe etc.... before accepting to install their apps on our machines
>
> let's all team up and create this new "security" level and impose it on
> the world - let's make a fortune on others gullibility .... others do it ,
> why not us afterall ?

The best thing Microsoft could do is to NOT allow to install any application
outside of "Program Files". But for marketing (and compatibility) reasons,
this will not happen in Win7 (IMO). But it really would be "wise" <g>.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

If it was there since 10 years then how come I (and all others too) survived
?
Here , ok I was always single user on machine so always ran and still do as
admin (I know ....)

We could use HKLM and never had pbs .....

The best thing Microsoft could do is to forbid having several partitions
also and many more :)

The one thing I understand from these posts is that you are for and I am
against ..... :)

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> If it was there since 10 years then how come I (and all others too)
> survived ?
> Here , ok I was always single user on machine so always ran and still
> do as admin (I know ....)

Yes! And that, in fact, *is* the problem ;-) That's why Microsoft had to
introduce UAC ;-)

But I think your above statement is not correct. It is *YOU* and *NOT* "all
others too" ;-) See below.

In fact, a Limited User account is very similar to the resource protection
in Vista. But Vista is "better" because of the "over-the-shoulder" (OTS)
credentialing feature, etc. A Limited User under XP can also not write to
protected resources. If you write to the Windows folder, or to the Program
Files folder, or if you write to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINES registry key, the
application needs Admin privileges. This "resource protection" goes back to
NT4 and is fully integrated in Windows 2000, Windows 2003, Windows XP,
Vista, Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7!

But in the past, most XP users lived in Admin mode (against all Microsoft
recommendations) and the developer designed the application in such a way
that Admin privileges are required (against all Microsoft recommendations).
So write access was not really a problem. Until now!!!!! I know quite a
few developers who have a complete support nightmare now because their
application cannot run correctly in a "locked down" environment. And I am
sure, this is only the beginning! Why? Because Windows 7 will also have
the UAC (User Access Control) feature. It's a *permanent* change to the
Windows operating system!

BTW, I also live in Admin mode under XP! But not under Vista/2008/Win7.

>
> We could use HKLM and never had pbs .....
>

Yes, as administrator. Not as Limited User (who is protected). In the
corporate world, most users live in a locked-down environment. They do not
have admin rights and so they cannot use software that only works with admin
permissions.

In the past, most developers had the following in their license agreement:

"You need administrator rights in order to install and use our software"

This is a killer now and quite a few companies already had to close their
doors because of it.

> The best thing Microsoft could do is to forbid having several partitions
> also and many more :)

No :)

>
> The one thing I understand from these posts is that you are for and I am
> against ..... :)

Yes :)

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

one sec Friedrich : if I understand you well, DMC installed requiring admin
rights when runned and not only when installing, cannot run on a user
account in say Vista ?

I need admin rights because some very intelligent person in M$land decided
that all ODBC drivers were NOT accessible under user account etc etc ... and
DMC needs to accesss those drivers

Would we be in front of a snake biting it's tail ?

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Jean-Pierre,

> one sec Friedrich : if I understand you well, DMC installed requiring
> admin rights when runned and not only when installing, cannot run on a
> user account in say Vista ?

Well, here you have the advantage of Vista. Because of the
"over-the-shoulder" (OTS) credentialing feature, a "Standard User" under
Vista can run your application that requests administrator execution level
privileges. Under XP (Limited User), applications that need Admin rights
simply fail.

Of course, your application prompts for elevation and the Admin password
when running on a "Standard User" account under Vista.

*BUT* (see below)

> I need admin rights because some very intelligent person in M$land decided
> that all ODBC drivers were NOT accessible under user account etc etc ...
> and DMC needs to accesss those drivers
>
> Would we be in front of a snake biting it's tail ?

Only the installer should request administrator execution level. Your
application should *never ever* request such privileges.

You are the ODBC expert, but from what I have read in the past, ODBC should
also work fine from a "Standard User" account. I know that one large
SetupBuilder customer is successfully using the Pervasive PSQL ODBC driver
from Standard User accounts under Vista. Only if your application modifies
the DSN you need another strategy.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I am no expert at all :)

Just tested under various configs and I found out during tests that ODBC
drivers are not visible to a user and only to admins
So I have to run elevated

I can also get DMC to see all the ODBC drivers I want .....if DMC installs
them as user x or y

But my goal in life is not really to install ODBC drivers on Vista machine
so I have to find another way ..... <g>

Now you tell me under XP it will fail ?

Have to try this also it seems ...... was life too easy ?

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

If you do that, I will ensure that I never run any installs built by you.

> Use root and ALL your troubles are gone
>


--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype Clarion chat: http://tinyurl.com/2273lm

[NewsArchive]

Russ,

Was it agreed on as Docs or Documents - I have an install from CapeSoft
that shows Documents under Accessory.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
Profile Exchanges - www.encouragersoftware.com/profile/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Hi David,

> Was it agreed on as Docs or Documents - I have an install from CapeSoft
> that shows Documents under Accessory.

I'm using "accessory\documents"

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

It was neither, it should go under a Vista-safe folder, I'm thinking what SV
and Lindersoft do.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype Clarion chat: http://tinyurl.com/2273lm

[NewsArchive]

Hi Russ,

> It was neither, it should go under a Vista-safe folder, I'm thinking what SV
> and Lindersoft do.
....
>> Was it agreed on as Docs or Documents - I have an install from CapeSoft
>> that shows Documents under Accessory.

Docs don't need to be in a vista safe folder since they are not going to be
saved there by the user. I have tucked mine into <Clarion
7>\accessory\documents\icetips\<product name>

Demos go into:

CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion 7\Accessory\Icetips\<product
name>

I don't know if there ever was a consensus about it, but it works in both
Vista and XP with C7. It does not work in C6 because of possible spaces in
the path, the linker chokes on it.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

> Hi Russ,
>
> On 28 Dec 2008 09:25:05 -0500, Russell B. Eggen wrote:
>
>> It was neither, it should go under a Vista-safe folder, I'm thinking what SV
>> and Lindersoft do.
> ....
>>> Was it agreed on as Docs or Documents - I have an install from CapeSoft
>>> that shows Documents under Accessory.
>
> Docs don't need to be in a vista safe folder since they are not going to be
> saved there by the user. I have tucked mine into <Clarion
> 7>\accessory\documents\icetips\<product name>
>
> Demos go into:
>
> CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion 7\Accessory\Icetips\<product
> name>

Arnór (and others),

Hopefully, ALL 3rd party companies will be consistent in both the Public
documents area and of course, Program Files area -

so far, I know of CapeSoft and Icetips using the same format in the Public
documents area - specifically using the Clarion<sp>7 folder, however, in
the Program Files area - Clarion7 folder.

C:\Users\Public\Documents\SoftVelocity\Clarion 7\Accessory\

C:\Program Files\SoftVelocity\Clarion7\accessory\

C:\Users\Public\Documents\SoftVelocity\Clarion 7\Accessory\Capesoft\

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
Profile Exchanges - www.encouragersoftware.com/profile/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Hi David,

> documents area - specifically using the Clarion<sp>7 folder, however, in
> the Program Files area - Clarion7 folder.

> C:\Program Files\SoftVelocity\Clarion7\accessory\

This is not correct. By default the Clarion 7 installs goes to
CSIDL_PROGRAMFILES\SoftVelocity\Clarion 7

Note the space. However you can install it anywhere so it should not matter
if the root path is correctly determined by the installer.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

> Note the space. However you can install it anywhere so it should not matter
> if the root path is correctly determined by the installer.

I can already see the need for a new 3rd party "Where's my Clarion 7
Stuff?" tool.

It should be simple enough to base it on "Where's Waldo?"


Personally I'd like to see Windows 7 (or whatever version) enforce a strict
policy of what files go where and simply refuse to load or run any type of
file that is not where it should be...

Then the entire issue of what belongs where would be dead once and for all.

:-)

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Charles,

> Then the entire issue of what belongs where would be dead once and for all.

Nah! MS would paint themselves and everyone else into a corner that
could never be escaped!<g>

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Senility has a silver lining, you eventually forget you forgot.
-- Lee White, 2008(I think)

[NewsArchive]

>> Then the entire issue of what belongs where would be dead once and for all.
>
> Nah! MS would paint themselves and everyone else into a corner that
> could never be escaped!<g>

Perhaps.

But I find it to be lovely ironic that all this only allowing program files
to execute from the program files folder (which is where I am sure we ARE
heading) goes full circle back to what UNIX/Linux has been doing
(successfully) for years...

The Windows paradigm is proof positive that (like voting<g>), sometimes
allowing the general populace to run willy-nilly and do whatever they
please is not always the right thing to do<g>.

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Heil Hi...!<g>
--
Robert Barton
Barton Hills Associates

[NewsArchive]

precisely what I dared not say :)

what a complete nuissance all this has turned into since a year now !

what is wrong with a second partition ? NOTHING and please no more
"protection" from big brother stuff ..... ten KB's a month on security .....

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> precisely what I dared not say :)
>
> what a complete nuissance all this has turned into since a year now !
>
> what is wrong with a second partition ? NOTHING and please no more
> "protection" from big brother stuff ..... ten KB's a month on security
> .....

We should not forget that the Windows NT, 2000, 2003, and even XP age is
over. Development guidelines have absolutely nothing to do with "Big
Brother" ;-) We are living in a very complex IT world and what makes our
life easier and protects the investment of our customers are "basic"
guidelines. By the way, the same is true for SoftVelocity 3rd-party
deployment guidelines.

Microsoft introduced the development guidelines for "Windows NT" (later
enhanced for 2000, XP, and Vista) 12+ years ago. NT was the first Microsoft
operating system that provided true access control. But lots of software
developers made one common mistake in the past -- they developed and tested
their software only with an administrator (full access) account. When it
was shipped to an environment where users were "locked down" (limited
rights), the application simply wouldn't work. To work-around this
developer created problem, they added the following to their license
agreement:

"You need administrator rights in order to install and use our software."

Problem solved!? No, problem not solved. Developers (and customers) have
to pay for the above fundamental mistake now. Why? Because this strategy
does not work any longer.

Fortunately, those days are mostly over. More and more developers are
following "the rules" now (again: not introduced last year, but 12+ years
ago!). In the very near future, it will be impossible to sell any software
product that does not conform to the "basic" guidelines for Windows
development.

Software developers have to understand the concept of access rights, which
they have to take into account when preparing applications. And of course,
they have to understand the concept of Vista (and the upcoming Windows 7).
The Program Files, Windows and System32 folders are completely locked down
and protected through Windows Resource Protection -- a feature that
automatically repairs key changes to either the file system or the Windows
registry. On top of that, there is User Account Control (UAC), an
environment where every user, even administrators, run all processes with a
Standard User
token and where access rights elevation requires explicit permissions.

I think it's very clear what to do: we are Windows software developers and
so we have to follow the "basic rules" or "standards" (guidelines) on how to
develop and deploy software for Windows. Otherwise, we'll run into trouble
sooner or later.

My $.02

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

1. I am a new born dev and as such am eager to learn and have no drawbacks
or predefined preferences
2. I would like to distribute an app to all windows OS
3. My software is a tool which requires access to MACHINE ODBC drivers ( I
upper machine because I have found out that since a year on Vista and upper
Microsoft does not give access to ODBC drivers to non elevated users : the
list is empty although drivers ARE installed)

How do I do it please Sir ?

1 + 2 + 3 =

<baby dev g>

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

> Hi David,
>
>> documents area - specifically using the Clarion<sp>7 folder, however, in
>> the Program Files area - Clarion7 folder.
>
>> C:\Program Files\SoftVelocity\Clarion7\accessory\
>
> This is not correct. By default the Clarion 7 installs goes to
> CSIDL_PROGRAMFILES\SoftVelocity\Clarion 7
>
> Note the space. However you can install it anywhere so it should not matter
> if the root path is correctly determined by the installer.

Arnór,

Please see the attached tree folder.

I had the non-AppGen 7.0.3669 previously installed for a general CSP
subscriber.

I un-installed 7.0.3669 - I installed the general release CSP C7 AppGen -
7.0.4608.

I chose the "defaults" FOR ALL the SV installs for C7 that I received as a
general CSP subscriber -

The resulting tree in the screen shot is what the "default" for SV installs
has installed on my computer.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
Profile Exchanges - www.encouragersoftware.com/profile/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Hi David,

> I un-installed 7.0.3669 - I installed the general release CSP C7 AppGen -
> 7.0.4608.
>
> I chose the "defaults" FOR ALL the SV installs for C7 that I received as a
> general CSP subscriber -
>
> The resulting tree in the screen shot is what the "default" for SV installs
> has installed on my computer.

Hmm... Interesting. I checked the install that I have which I installed in
November (I'm not sure what build it was) and it is in "Clarion 7" so this
must be a releatively new change.

However, what the exact folder name and location is should be absolutely
mute since the installer should detect where it is installed and set the
folders up accordingly:)

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

> Hi David,
>
>> I un-installed 7.0.3669 - I installed the general release CSP C7 AppGen -
>> 7.0.4608.
>>
>> I chose the "defaults" FOR ALL the SV installs for C7 that I received as a
>> general CSP subscriber -
>>
>> The resulting tree in the screen shot is what the "default" for SV installs
>> has installed on my computer.
>
> Hmm... Interesting. I checked the install that I have which I installed in
> November (I'm not sure what build it was) and it is in "Clarion 7" so this
> must be a releatively new change.

Arnor,

Well, relatively new is true, since we general CSPers received very few C7
installs. :-D

>
> However, what the exact folder name and location is should be absolutely
> mute since the installer should detect where it is installed and set the
> folders up accordingly:)

Exactly - point I was trying to make is this - OK, in your install - for
the Public Documents you use this:

CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion 7\Accessory\Icetips\

Let's avoid this from another company
CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion7\Acces sory\another-company\

Just asking that it's consistent from Clarion 3rd party in both the Program
Files area and CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS area.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
Profile Exchanges - www.encouragersoftware.com/profile/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Hi David,

> Exactly - point I was trying to make is this - OK, in your install - for
> the Public Documents you use this:
>
> CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion 7\Accessory\Icetips\
>
> Let's avoid this from another company
> CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocity\Clarion7\Acces sory\another-company\
>
> Just asking that it's consistent from Clarion 3rd party in both the Program
> Files area and CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS area.

Agreed. I don't know what others are using - not sure if there was a
consensus on the example apps. I think I may have been the first one to pop
out C7 demo apps with my last release of the Icetips Utilities and I used
"CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS\Softvelocisy\Clarion
7\Accessory\Icetips\ITUtilities"

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Arnor,

Innocent voice from graveyard asked : how come ? I thought you all had a
common wish to use accessory etc ..... !

:)

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> Innocent voice from graveyard asked : how come ? I thought you all had a
> common wish to use accessory etc ..... !

Necessity. If C7 is installed into Program Files and you are on vista and
you don't run the IDE elevated, what happens? Your generated files will go
into the virtual store and I have no clue what would happen if they do.
Better be safe then sorry;)

I opted for COMMON_DOCUMENTS rather than my documents because my documents
is private and the installer can't install into it.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

> I opted for COMMON_DOCUMENTS rather than my documents because my documents
> is private and the installer can't install into it.

IMHO the best thing would be if the Clarion 7 installer created the base
folder in COMMON_DOCUMENTS and the vendor just added their sub folders
under it.

No guesswork that way<g>

Charles





--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

The moment we can install where we want ...... from the installer ..... as
far as I am concerned : I do not want anything under an impossible path to
remember like c:\users\xxx\tttttt

For my machine all was and all will go to a special clarion partition

Like Russ said he did not want to use my installers, I will not install
templates who do not allow users to select the directory to install into

This is maybe one good reason : you all never needed to check that an clw
file or an inc file from a template you had was the good version ?
and to check this you never tried installing to any temp dir or partition
etc ?
well I do from time to time and if all goes always same place (unwanted
moreover) then ....

I know ..... :)

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> 1. I am a new born dev and as such am eager to learn and have no drawbacks
> or predefined preferences
> 2. I would like to distribute an app to all windows OS
> 3. My software is a tool which requires access to MACHINE ODBC drivers ( I
> upper machine because I have found out that since a year on Vista and
> upper Microsoft does not give access to ODBC drivers to non elevated users
> : the list is empty although drivers ARE installed)
>
> How do I do it please Sir ?
>
> 1 + 2 + 3 =
>
> <baby dev g>

First of all, your above "ODBC problem" should not be an excuse for NOT
using the recommended and correct folders when installing software ;-) Even
if you have developed a software product that needs administrator execution
level privileges, you should always follow the rules and install into the
correct folders.

Okay, so you have developed an ODBC based tool that needs elevation because
it does not "see" the ODBC drivers. But only Microsoft system tools or
installers should request administrator execution level privileges. All
other software products should NEVER EVER require elevation (including your
"DMC" product).

The only "limitation" with regard to ODBC is (as far as I know) that you can
create system data source names (DSNs) from within your application only if
logged on as an elevated administrator. By design, a "Standard User" cannot
create system DSNs under Vista.

I have developed and compiled a small quick-and-dirty ODBC test application
for you in VC++ to demonstrate ODBC running as "Standard User" under Vista.
See attached odbc_demo.zip. The application dbodbc.exe is "asInvoker"
manifested and code-signed. It connects to a dummy ADR.MDB Access Database
using the Microsoft Access ODBC Driver and it does NOT require administrator
execution level privileges! It runs "unelevated" (does not give you the
elevation prompt if you start dbodbc.exe). So my unelevated demo can "see"
the ODBC driver. And Microsoft gives me access to the ODBC driver through
my unelevated application. Is this correct, Sir? ;-)

I hope I have not completely misunderstood your ODBC problem.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

And another test. I start the SetupBuilder IDE ("unelevated") and use the
"Install ODBC Driver..." function to get a list of all installed ODBC
drivers.

I see this (attached screenshot). So my unelevated SetupBuilder can see the
ODBC drivers.

What do you think?

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

I follow the rules except that I have to run elevated .....
I install under program files etc and data under common appdata
If the user wants to change it is his responsability

I think that the problem under Vista and 2008 is deeper but will have to
test again here : if I remember well all microsoft drivers are seen user
wise bit all others cannot

It may come from who installs what also but that I cannot control ....

DMC needs to see (and use) ALL ODBC drivers and to be able to write SYSTEM
DSN's

I am sure we will find a way between the two of us ....

Let me try your way to see again what can be wrong

Merci :)

JP

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> I follow the rules except that I have to run elevated .....
> I install under program files etc and data under common appdata
> If the user wants to change it is his responsability

Aha, okay. That's great!

> I think that the problem under Vista and 2008 is deeper but will have to
> test again here : if I remember well all microsoft drivers are seen user
> wise bit all others cannot
>
> It may come from who installs what also but that I cannot control ....

Under Vista/2008/Win7, it's always an account with administrator execution
level privileges (or an Admin account under NT/2000/XP) that installed the
ODBC drivers.

> DMC needs to see (and use) ALL ODBC drivers and to be able to write SYSTEM
> DSN's

An unelevated application can see and use all ODBC drivers, but can't write
DSNs. So if you really have to write DSNs, then you only have two options:
change the existing permissions to "full control" for HKLM\SOFTWARE\ODBC to
allow Standard Users to write to the registry (DON'T DO THIS <g>) -or- run
the app elevated. The latter will fail under XP when running as Limited
User.

>
> I am sure we will find a way between the two of us ....
>

:)

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I also posted a new one to let all be reassured : what I do on MY machine
has of course nothing to do with how I built the DMC installer who follows
all Windows rules

I'd be dumb not to do it and also would never had gotten the Microsoft
certification .... :)

So I have a pb under XP now it seems which could explain other things

Could I please ask you to download and test under a "normal" XP virtual if
you have one handy ? (I do not here and only have admin account ones so I
will need to add accounts to xp virtuals to test all

www.dmc-fr.com/programme/dmcsetup.exe

Million thanks again for all this extended help : voted for BEST EVER
support in the community ! <bg>

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> I also posted a new one to let all be reassured : what I do on MY machine
> has of course nothing to do with how I built the DMC installer who follows
> all Windows rules
>
> I'd be dumb not to do it and also would never had gotten the Microsoft
> certification .... :)

Right :) And the same is true for SetupBuilder. Without Jean-Pierre,
Vista/2008 certification for SetupBuilder would not have been possible ;-)

--- BUT, and there is always a "but" in life <g> ---

You would not receive a "Certified for Vista or 2008" logo for "DMC" because
it is NOT a valid "Mixed User Application". Such an application has to work
without any problem under a "Admin" and "Limited/Standard User" account!

This is what I tried to explain in this (long) thread <g>. Not following
the rules causes problems. Why? See below:

> So I have a pb under XP now it seems which could explain other things
>
> Could I please ask you to download and test under a "normal" XP virtual if
> you have one handy ? (I do not here and only have admin account ones so I
> will need to add accounts to xp virtuals to test all
>
> www.dmc-fr.com/programme/dmcsetup.exe

I installed the above "DMC" install image and created a "Limited User"
account, named "JP"

In this Limited User account (its resource protection is similar to running
an app unelevated under Vista), I started "DMC" and got the following
message
two times:

---
No Translation Will Be Done
File Error() with
\cfg_import\langues\dmc.btl
Translation will be disabled

[OK]
---

After clicking [OK], I received:

---
FM3: Unable to Open UPG file: cause 3 Path Not Found FileError:
Name:\cfg_import\Upg.Tps\!Upg2

[Abort] [Ignore]
---

Then "DMC" stopped!

Okay, just for fun, the same procedure with SetupBuilder, a real "Mixed User
Application". I installed SetupBuilder, started the IDE under the Limited
User account and created and compiled a test installation project without
any problem in 10 seconds!

I hope this makes clear what I tried to explain in this thread. And why we
had to invest 18 months of research and development for the SetupBuilder
Vista compatibility capapility, why we went through all the Vista beta and
release candidates, and why I tell again and again that we have to follow
the rules ;-) And why we'll do the same for Windows 7.

> Million thanks again for all this extended help : voted for BEST EVER
> support in the community ! <bg>

Thank you :)

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Merci :)

Which confirms under Vista it works and under XP with user account it does
not find the directories ....

Microsoft ubber ales !

This I am sure explains that ....

Will revert

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> Merci :)

You are very welcome ;-)

> Which confirms under Vista it works and under XP with user account it does
> not find the directories ....
>
> Microsoft ubber ales !
>
> This I am sure explains that ....

Yes, it works under Vista because, if you run "DMC" as a Standard User,
"over-the-shoulder" elevation is your best friend ;-)

Under XP, your "DMC" application will never be able to run under a Limited
User account because "over-the-shoulder" elevation is an exclusive Windows
Vista/2008/Win7 feature.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I wanted to add something important also :
what I do on MY machine has nothing to do with what I do in the DMC
installer which complies to all Windows latest standards as all users
already know

--

Thank you - Merci

Cordialement - Best Regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

DMC - Data Management Center - A tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer all your Data very easily
www.dmc-fr.com
Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server
2008"