Installer life

[NewsArchive]

It there a way to put a date and number of days of life into the setup
file? The idea is to prevent the setup being used after a certain
number of days.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd http://www.NPSL1.com

[NewsArchive]

Steve,

> It there a way to put a date and number of days of life into the setup
> file? The idea is to prevent the setup being used after a certain
> number of days.

Something like the following: you compile the setup.exe installer on April
1, 2009 and it should only be used for 14 days. On and after April 15, it
should display a "Beta outdated - please download a new installer yada" and
then terminate.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

>Steve,
>
>> It there a way to put a date and number of days of life into the setup
>> file? The idea is to prevent the setup being used after a certain
>> number of days.
>
>Something like the following: you compile the setup.exe installer on April
>1, 2009 and it should only be used for 14 days. On and after April 15, it
>should display a "Beta outdated - please download a new installer yada" and
>then terminate.

Not quite. I want the date to be when the setup.exe is run and the
message to be produce after a certain number of days. My software is
available in two versions. One is a free 30 day trial and the other is
a full unlimited version that users have to pay for. I would like the
full version setup.exe to time out and thus help prevent copies of my
software full version being "given" away.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd http://www.NPSL1.com

[NewsArchive]

Steve,

>>Something like the following: you compile the setup.exe installer on April
>>1, 2009 and it should only be used for 14 days. On and after April 15, it
>>should display a "Beta outdated - please download a new installer yada"
>>and then terminate.
>
> Not quite. I want the date to be when the setup.exe is run and the
> message to be produce after a certain number of days. My software is
> available in two versions. One is a free 30 day trial and the other is
> a full unlimited version that users have to pay for. I would like the
> full version setup.exe to time out and thus help prevent copies of my
> software full version being "given" away.

You can't do this from an installer because users can make an unlimited
number of setup.exe copies.

To handle this scenario, you have to use a license protection software (e.g.
Armadillo) from your application. And even with this system, you have to
support an option that "binds" the license key to a specific machine to
prevent copies of your software being "given" away. But IIRC, Armadillo
supports this.

Does this help?

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

> To handle this scenario, you have to use a license protection software (e.g.
> Armadillo) from your application. And even with this system, you have to
> support an option that "binds" the license key to a specific machine to
> prevent copies of your software being "given" away. But IIRC, Armadillo
> supports this.

I see great minds think alike<g>

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
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and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

>Steve,
>
>>>Something like the following: you compile the setup.exe installer on April
>>>1, 2009 and it should only be used for 14 days. On and after April 15, it
>>>should display a "Beta outdated - please download a new installer yada"
>>>and then terminate.
>>
>> Not quite. I want the date to be when the setup.exe is run and the
>> message to be produce after a certain number of days. My software is
>> available in two versions. One is a free 30 day trial and the other is
>> a full unlimited version that users have to pay for. I would like the
>> full version setup.exe to time out and thus help prevent copies of my
>> software full version being "given" away.
>
>You can't do this from an installer because users can make an unlimited
>number of setup.exe copies.
>

That's what I thought but I know you have lots of clever tricks up you
sleeve :)

>To handle this scenario, you have to use a license protection software (e.g.
>Armadillo) from your application. And even with this system, you have to
>support an option that "binds" the license key to a specific machine to
>prevent copies of your software being "given" away. But IIRC, Armadillo
>supports this.
>

My software has built in protection. It does key to specific user
names but I don't want to use a hardware lock.

I just want to prevent people giving away the setup.exe

If the setup.exe only worked for a certain time it would help.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd http://www.NPSL1.com

[NewsArchive]

Steve,

>
> If the setup.exe only worked for a certain time it would help.
>

I see what you are trying to do. But unfortunately, without having an
active Internet connection and without having a license database running on
a server in the background, it's not possible from the technical point of
view.

What we have done for a large client is the following. The setup.exe
connects to a server and sends an encrypted serial number. The server
checks if there are still enough licenses available for this specific
setup.exe. If this is the case, the server sends back an encrypted data
stream. If the data in this encrypted stream is valid, the setup.exe
continues and installs the software. At the end of a successful
installation, the server is connected again and the "number of available
licenses" is decreased by one. If this number is zero, no further
installation with this setup.exe is allowed ("You have reached the number of
allowable licenses.")

When doing an uninstall, the server is connected at the end of the uninstall
process and the "number of available licenses" is increased by one.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

> Not quite. I want the date to be when the setup.exe is run and the
> message to be produce after a certain number of days. My software is
> available in two versions. One is a free 30 day trial and the other is
> a full unlimited version that users have to pay for. I would like the
> full version setup.exe to time out and thus help prevent copies of my
> software full version being "given" away.

But what happens if your users need to re-install your program after a
crash or on a new computer?

Most people are very resistant to buying any sort of software that they can
not install again (after all they ARE legitimate users) if you get hit by
the Clarion bus.

I believe your logic is flawed in this respect.

Armadillo can generate keys that will not work after a certain number of
days from when they were generated and of course that is protection on the
actual EXE so you don't have to worry about it at the installer level.

It would also give you the ability to have a single installer. The program
starts its life as a demo and expires after the 30 day demo period.
Someone buys it and you send them a key to turn it on.

The problem (from the customer perspective) of not being able to re-install
without getting a new key from you still exists). However it is under
better control since you don't care who gets the installer (as it will just
install in demo mode without a key).

Of course our SoftDefense product elevates the protection that you can get
with Armadillo and Clarion to the highest level possible.

SetupBuilder is absolutely fantastic, but this is a task better suited for
Armadillo IMHO.


Just my $.02

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

>> Not quite. I want the date to be when the setup.exe is run and the
>> message to be produce after a certain number of days. My software is
>> available in two versions. One is a free 30 day trial and the other is
>> a full unlimited version that users have to pay for. I would like the
>> full version setup.exe to time out and thus help prevent copies of my
>> software full version being "given" away.
>
>But what happens if your users need to re-install your program after a
>crash or on a new computer?
>
>Most people are very resistant to buying any sort of software that they can
>not install again (after all they ARE legitimate users) if you get hit by
>the Clarion bus.
>

My software is upgraded every two months or so. In my experience users
who want to re-install my software ask for an upgrade at the same
time. They can have free upgrades for three months from the purchase.
After that the upgrades are at a very low price.

If I get hit by a bus there are three other people who can take over
the company operations but I'm not going walking in the bus lane just
now!

I know producing a setup.exe with a limited life has some problems.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd http://www.NPSL1.com

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich and Charles have made good suggestions. I often code a "can't be
run after a certain date" element into installations.

As I read your responses, it sounds as if you want the installer to be
somehow modified after it's first been run so that even if the modified file
is copied to another machine, the clock will still be ticking from its first
run. Even if SB supported that, modifying the installation program when
it's run would invalidate the digital signature (you are signing your
programs and installers, right?).

As both guys have said, you really need to protect your actual program, not
the installer. Armadillo would let you package your program with a 30-day
(or whatever) demo license and you can tie any purchased license activations
to a specific computer. Depending on the cost of your product, you might
also want to consider using a USB dongle for copy protection.

Jane

[NewsArchive]

The trial version of my software already has a 30-day license. The
full version has all the protection it needs and copies do not work.
The weak link is the setup.exe as anyone can produce multiple copies
and sell than for much lower prices than me. That has been done with a
fake company license already. I had to release a free upgrade and
distribute free it to users. That cost a lot in time but no great loss
of income.

As for dongles, no way. I was involved with the evaluation of some
seriously expensive software for a company. It would have cost over
$3,000 per licensed user and there were hundreds of potential users.
Despite our recommendation the company would not buy anything with a
dongle. It was all to do with mutual trust with suppliers.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd http://www.NPSL1.com

[NewsArchive]

Stephen,

For most of our software (the bigger programs) we have 2 installs.. one is
the demo and runs forever and is limited in inventory and customers. The
other is the same program, but it is real and has whatever options we want
turned on.

Neither one are tied to a machine. I simply use a file that gets installed
with the program (demo or real). When I send out my real program, I can
alter the data file which is external to the install so I can setup how long
the program will run and the options. Then, if they take the same install
and try to install it somewhere else, after 30 days (what we set it for here
at the office when we send out the CD) it will install, but the program will
not run (they then have to call us). Basically I handle the copy protection
within my program.

If my customer has a computer problem, we tell them to install the program,
restore the data, and they're up and running. And sometimes they reinstall
the program and it's instantly dead, and they have to call us. We just give
them a code (interactive) over the phone. This has worked well for 20 years
(we used the same thing in our dos versions).

So, they could probably steal the program, and they have. But, we're in it
for the long haul, and we track our customers very closely, so we catch them
eventually. Thankfully we sell to businesses and most of them really like
having a software company they can call on the phone and get answers right
away.

And, because I actually don't start my install with the setupbuilder
install, but one I made in Clarion, I can run video's, let people view
prices, and of course install the program / demo (which runs the
setupbuilder install). Gives me more flexibility so I could theoretically
make my file start from the install to give them 30 days (and make sure it
only happened once).

For the smaller programs where I don't really deal directly too much with
the customers, I use EXEshield and use hardware protection... simple.

Well, there's my 2 cents (ok, a lot more than that).

Ray
VMT