Using serial numbers

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Been going through the docs (and I updated the docs this morning <g>). I
can see how SB generates, and prompts for serial numbers, but does this
extend beyond the installer? How does my CoolApp.exe use this data once
installed?

What I'd like to do is prompt a user to enter a serial or license number
during the installation process. This may be left blank and if so, the
installed program, once run knows it's a demo due to no serial number. So
I'm not very interested in protecting the installer as a demo should be
copied and spread around to everyone <g>.

If a user enters a license or serial number during the install process, then
the installed program, once run knows it is not a demo and fully functioning
program.

I know there are variations to this (such as this serial number turns on
certain features only, etc), but that can come later. Right now, I'd like
to do a "it's a demo or it's not" scenario. I think I can manage variations
a bit later if I need them.

That make sense?
--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/dev.htm

[NewsArchive]

Hi Russ,

SetupBuilder generates serial numbers and subscription keys for your
*installer*. So based on the serial number, you can install a trial or full
version. You can even install different editions of the program (e.g.
Standard, Professional, Enterprise, etc.) based on the serial number scheme
from the same setup.exe. User enters a Professional Edition serial number
and Professional Edition is installed, user enters no serial number and the
trial is installed, and so on. That's what we are doing with our LSZip
install now. A valid serial number installs the full version, a blank
serial number field installs the trial version.

BTW, if you have to verify the SetupBuilder-generated serial number or
subscription key from your application, then the only option you have is to
develop a small helper application with SetupBuilder and call this from your
own application. But please note that SetupBuilder is not a application
protection system (like Armadillo). The serial number and subscription
features are there to protect your installations and updates. It's not (and
should not be) a copy protection system. And good application protection
mechanism only works from the application, not from the installation.

Does this help?

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder "point. click. ship"
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Thank you Friedrich! That clarifies matters. Matter of fact, I just got the
suggestion to use a helper app during the install. <G>

What I really needed to know is what your serial number stuff does, and you
answered my question perfectly. I think it also exposed how little I know
about this stuff and how much study I still need to do!

Thanks!

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/dev.htm

[NewsArchive]

Why would you use a helper app DURING the install? Just validate the serial
number or subscription plan directly in the installer.
Helper app only makes sense when you need to use SetupBuilder functionality
from outside of SB.

Jane

[NewsArchive]

Like I mentioned, I really don't need to protect the install. Actually,
that would hinder my marketing efforts. ;-)

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/dev.htm

[NewsArchive]

What you mentioned that confused me (as I agree it would hinder your
marketing efforts) was

"Matter of fact, I just got the
suggestion to use a helper app during the install. "

Hence my question ;-)

jf

[NewsArchive]

It was noting that Friedrich suggested this almost at the same time as
someone else did in the Skype chat. No, it was not JP <g>.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/dev.htm

[NewsArchive]

Russell,

I have 2 methods.. one is my personal method where I install an external
file .. if it's not there.. it's a demo... if it is.. certain things can be
turned on or off in the program. In setupbuilder I have a choice of building
a demo or real program.... if it's a demo, the file is included in the
install, if it's a real program, the file is assumed to be external (on the
CD) during the actual install. This way when we create a cd, we have a
program that will just change that one file to turn on options.

However, it can be compromised.

The simplest copy protection I've ever found was Exeshield. With that I run
the exeshield on my main exe only... then run setupbuilder to create the
install. When the program is first installed on a machine it is a demo for x
amount of days.. then it prompts you to purchase it... then they can get a
license for that machine. If someone passes around the demo install... no
big deal... Plus, there are 2 companies that you can use to allow them to
'sell' your software and accept payment. And, EXEshield is very reasonable.

I only use exeshield for the smaller programs (so far)... sometimes
customers try and steal the bigger programs, but I always catch them because
they are running their business with them.... and sooner or later, a clerk
will call me with a question :) I have our 800# available in the program.

Ray
VMT

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Ray!

Right now, just trying to get the basics down, I'm not really concerned
about copy protection. Since the installs I want to make anyone can copy
and use them, I consider this promo. Licensing a permanent working copy (or
annual copy) is another issue. ;-)

There is so much information Friedrich put into the docs about serial
numbers, it was unclear to me how far this went. His reply to my post
answered my question exactly.

While Friedrich has gone to great lengths to protect installs from hackers,
nothing is really crack-proof, he just puts the odds in our favor <g>. I'm
actually thinking my regular setup installs only a demo as that is all there
is in it. Then an iDeploy method to get the actual licensed binaries, but
only when users enter a serial number. I've got my iDeploy stuff working
just like Friedrich does with SetupBuilder (which is now a company
standard).

Just one of a few designs I'm chewing on.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/dev.htm

[NewsArchive]

Hi Russ,

> While Friedrich has gone to great lengths to protect installs from hackers,
> nothing is really crack-proof, he just puts the odds in our favor <g>. I'm

For general software installs you don't need to protect the install at all,
but you need to copy protect what is installed, i.e. using Armadillo or such
programs. It sounds to me that this is really what you need rather than
protecting the install, based on your original posting about how this
extended to the application.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Alta LLC
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

>> While Friedrich has gone to great lengths to protect installs from hackers,
>> nothing is really crack-proof, he just puts the odds in our favor <g>. I'm
>
> For general software installs you don't need to protect the install at all,
> but you need to copy protect what is installed, i.e. using Armadillo or such
> programs. It sounds to me that this is really what you need rather than
> protecting the install, based on your original posting about how this
> extended to the application.

Actually it is a good idea to even protect the demo and free versions with
a product like Armadillo.

That way even the demo/free version gets compressed (smaller download) and
more importantly the code is not exposed to hackers.

This helps prevent them from hacking your demo to see how to hack your paid
version.

Charles



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[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles,

> Actually it is a good idea to even protect the demo and free versions with
> a product like Armadillo.

Of course. I don't care about freeware stuff, don't see a reason to wrap
it, but for me demos are the same as commercial products and should be
treated the same:)

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Alta LLC
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

You might create a little helper app you could call from your product
(attached zip has list of SNs in text file and batch file to call the helper
app).
I set the return code based on the SN's validity, but you could also write
to the Registry, etc. I also put in message boxes, which you'd obviously
only use for testing.
You could use a similar approach to verify a maintenance plan/"subscription
key"

HTH

Jane

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Jane!

BTW - got your 3 articles sitting here about Comodo stuff. You were far too
kind to them <seg>.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/dev.htm