What actually causes UAC warning

[NewsArchive]

Hi All,

I am trying to find out what actually cause MS Vista64 to throw up that UAC
Warning "A program needs your permission to continue" when attempting to run
an installation executable?

I am maybe going to have an issue with registry and ini files in the near
future so I was looking at Charles Edmonds ProPath product. I downloaded
his demo, and went to run it and his install DOES throw up the UAC error -
the whole point of his product. It does NOT happen to our installs that use
Setup Builder 4.03

His installation has a digital signature. Ours does not. His has the
little shield displayed on the icon, ours does not. His setup was created
using SetupBuilder 7.0.0.1 ours 4.03

Can anyone tell me what I have done that works, and why his is not?

This is not meant to be a slam on his product OR on SetupBuilder because it
does appear that I am going to purchase both. I just found it funny/ironic
that it was happening and wondered why mine was not. PS: I did right click
the install file and clicked the Unblock button as well, but that made no
difference at all. On this Vista PC I have left ALL settings as Vista
defaulted when I setup the pc.


--
Best Regards,

Andy Morgan
c63

[NewsArchive]

> I am trying to find out what actually cause MS Vista64 to throw up that UAC
> Warning "A program needs your permission to continue" when attempting to run
> an installation executable?
>
> I am maybe going to have an issue with registry and ini files in the near
> future so I was looking at Charles Edmonds ProPath product. I downloaded
> his demo, and went to run it and his install DOES throw up the UAC error -
> the whole point of his product. It does NOT happen to our installs that use
> Setup Builder 4.03
>
> His installation has a digital signature. Ours does not. His has the
> little shield displayed on the icon, ours does not. His setup was created
> using SetupBuilder 7.0.0.1 ours 4.03
>
> Can anyone tell me what I have done that works, and why his is not?
>
> This is not meant to be a slam on his product OR on SetupBuilder because it
> does appear that I am going to purchase both. I just found it funny/ironic
> that it was happening and wondered why mine was not. PS: I did right click
> the install file and clicked the Unblock button as well, but that made no
> difference at all. On this Vista PC I have left ALL settings as Vista
> defaulted when I setup the pc.

Andy,

As I mentioned in the other groups, a simple answer.

The compiled apps in our demo were not code signed (oversight on our part).

The purpose of the demo was to demonstrate ProPath's ability to control
where the data and INI files end up, not anything more than that.

I have added Code Signing to each app (this took a couple of minutes - see
attached), recompiled the demo with SetupBuilder and uploaded it again.

You can download it agian here:

http://www.clarionproseries.com/html/ppdownload.html

Sorry for the confusion!

Charles

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles - but that would be wrong. Your demo apps did NOT produce the
UAC error when they were not code signed. It was the installation that did
and still does. Just trying to see what I need to do here. Thanks

--
Best Regards,

Andy Morgan
c63

[NewsArchive]

> Hi Charles - but that would be wrong. Your demo apps did NOT produce the
> UAC error when they were not code signed. It was the installation that did
> and still does. Just trying to see what I need to do here. Thanks

Hi Andy,

Just to follow up what I said in the other group (to benefit others since
this goes on to echo the SetupBuilder forums)...

The initial UAC prompt is where the OS is asking the user if the program
should be allowed to modify the computer.

This is normal because the installer **IS** requesting to run elevated.

But once the program is installed, if the application is correctly
manifested, has been code signed and is writing data and INI files to UAC
safe locations, the user should not see any further prompts or warnings (or
have problems from files being Virtualized).

The exception to this of course would be if the application itself was
manifested to run elevated (which most applications should not be).

:-)

Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Andy,

Just because you're not getting warning messages, don't contently sit
feeling warm and fuzzy.

Vista is tricky.

If your installation program
1. does not have a vista- or windows 7-aware manifest
AND
2. is not named something like "installMyProgram.exe" or
"setupMyProgram.exe" it may *appear* to work fine.

But if you're not installing *anything* within c:\program files AND are not
installing *anything* (even your app's INI file) inside of c:\windows or any
sub-folder thereof, AND are not writing to any Registry key other than
HKEY_Current_User, then your installation may actually be working fine.

The point is... it doesn't sound as if you know or know how to check.

I illustrated Vista's files and Registry "virtualization" extensively in
the articles I wrote for clarionmag a couple of years ago (subscription
required). And demonstrated some of the virtualization smoke-and-mirrors in
the clarionlive.com webinar (free to download) that I did in May.

Bottom line, if your app or installer seems so ancient and lame that Vista
"thinks" it doesn't have a clue, it will try to make you happy by pretending
to put stuff where you want but really putting it somewhere else. If only
one person ever logs onto the computer, you may never notice it. But if
another person logs on, certain stuff will appear to have disappeared.

Jane

[NewsArchive]

> Andy,
>
> Just because you're not getting warning messages, don't contently sit
> feeling warm and fuzzy.

I am trying to understand what is "really" happening - not what appears to
be.

> Vista is tricky.
>
> If your installation program
> 1. does not have a vista- or windows 7-aware manifest
> AND
> 2. is not named something like "installMyProgram.exe" or
> "setupMyProgram.exe" it may *appear* to work fine.
>
> But if you're not installing *anything* within c:\program files AND are
> not installing *anything* (even your app's INI file) inside of c:\windows
> or any sub-folder thereof, AND are not writing to any Registry key other
> than HKEY_Current_User, then your installation may actually be working
> fine.

Thank you.!!! I think this is where you nailed it. Every thing you said
here applies to my apps as they are currently configured. Finally a bit of
direction. I will need to alter this in the future with some apps I am
creating so the information is very, very helpful.


> The point is... it doesn't sound as if you know or know how to check.

I know how to check - therein lies the problem. I have checked. The way my
apps are "currently" configured they go exactly where I tell them to. the
data has gone exactly where I have told it to and as you said above - it is
actually working fine. My registry settings work. My ini files work. My
data files work. I have no UAC warnings, no little shields. From the
end-user's point of view - my apps look, and actually works perfectly.

> I illustrated Vista's files and Registry "virtualization" extensively in
> the articles I wrote for clarionmag a couple of years ago (subscription
> required). And demonstrated some of the virtualization smoke-and-mirrors
> in the clarionlive.com webinar (free to download) that I did in May.

I tried to watch your webinar but ended up missing much of it due to other
stuff going on. I'll download it to watch the whole thing.

> Bottom line, if your app or installer seems so ancient and lame that Vista

Thats YOU calling Friedrichs older versions lame - not me. <g>

> "thinks" it doesn't have a clue, it will try to make you happy by
> pretending to put stuff where you want but really putting it somewhere
> else. If only one person ever logs onto the computer, you may never
> notice it. But if another person logs on, certain stuff will appear to
> have disappeared.

No, as I said, the way my stuff is currently - I'll bet just as you said
above - it is working and that was why. As I mentioned in the other thread
to Charles - I want my personal apps to be "official" in every sese of the
word (UAC safe, code signed, and proper folder usage) so I can see where I
will need to makes changes. I think <g>

Thank you so much for the help.

Andy Morgan

[NewsArchive]

>> Bottom line, if your app or installer seems so ancient and lame that
>> Vista
>
> Thats YOU calling Friedrichs older versions lame - not me. <g>

Yep. SB4 installations in a Vista /Windows 7 /Server 2008 universe are
lame.

With no apologies to Friedrich, as I'd guess he might opine similarly <g>


>
> No, as I said, the way my stuff is currently - I'll bet just as you said
> above - it is working and that was why. As I mentioned in the other
> thread to Charles - I want my personal apps to be "official" in every sese
> of the word (UAC safe, code signed, and proper folder usage) so I can see
> where I will need to makes changes. I think <g>
>
> Thank you so much for the help.

The webinar was rather long-winded (to put it mildly) and I stubbed my toe
trying to create a web installation/update on-the-fly, but I think the stuff
showing virtualization was in the first hour or thereabouts. Try
fast-forwarding until you see me using Regedit and back up a bit from there.

Also, if you wind up buying a SetupBuilder license, Friedrich is starting to
distribute with SetupBuilder 7 a help file that includes a brief overview of
manifests/code-signing/UAC/virtualization.

Jane

[NewsArchive]

Thank you very much. You have answered more of my questions then anyone.
And what you're saying appears to be what I am seeing.

--
Best Regards,

Andy Morgan
c63

[NewsArchive]

And.... saying nice things to old ladies is good karma, Andy <g>

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

ROFL


--
Best Regards,

Andy Morgan
c63

[NewsArchive]

> And.... saying nice things to old ladies is good karma, Andy <g>

Especially to those who are well armed and a good shot<g>

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

> And.... saying nice things to old ladies is good karma, Andy <g>

<puts Boy Scout hat on>
Maam, can I help you across the street? Or would you help me?<g>
</>
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

> <puts Boy Scout hat on>
> Maam, can I help you across the street? Or would you help me?<g>
> </>

Jane could clear the way!

(she might even have a street sweeper<g>)

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

> (she might even have a street sweeper<g>)

I think she calls it a pistol.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

>> (she might even have a street sweeper<g>)
> I think she calls it a pistol.

Yes, but only because we won't let her have one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zR5HTtaCI

or this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhg0TvgawGk

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Makes this video from a couple of years ago seem pretty pathetic.
http://www.beachbunnysoftware.com/misc/Nats07a.wmv

Of course, I actually *hit* something...LOL... although yes, it did take 3
shots to hit that second *!!&$# piece of steel :rolleyes:

And then, at current prices that guy in the first video must have run
through well over $100 in ammo

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

> Makes this video from a couple of years ago seem pretty pathetic.
> http://www.beachbunnysoftware.com/misc/Nats07a.wmv
>
> Of course, I actually *hit* something...LOL... although yes, it did take 3
> shots to hit that second *!!&$# piece of steel :rolleyes:

LOL - I was wondering if that one was ever going to fall down<g>

Cool video though - looked like a fun course.

> And then, at current prices that guy in the first video must have run
> through well over $100 in ammo

Indeed.

It is like going to Knob Creek and paying $75 to fire the GE Mini gun.

Buuurrrrrppp ..... zinnnnnggggg!!

Your done!

"NEXT!!!!"

But what fun<g>

:-)

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Andy,

> I know how to check - therein lies the problem. I have checked. The way my
> apps are "currently" configured they go exactly where I tell them to. the
> data has gone exactly where I have told it to and as you said above - it is
> actually working fine. My registry settings work. My ini files work. My
> data files work. I have no UAC warnings, no little shields. From the
> end-user's point of view - my apps look, and actually works perfectly.

It really depends on where you place your app and where you place your data
if it is actually working perfectly or not. It may _appear_ to be, but it
may not actually be.

One thing to look out for is virtualization. If your program is manifested
asInvoker and you try to write to a subfolder in Program Files,
virtualization kicks in and does NOT write the file there, but into a
virtual folder, which would be located in
C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\

The danger in this is that if the user turns UAC OFF, then your program will
all of a sudden start reading and writing to Program Files, not the virtual
store. If the user has ben using the software with UAC turned off and he
turns it ON, then all of a sudden all his data is gone because now UAC will
redirect reads and writes to the virtual store. With UAC on, the program
will simply not touch the files in Program Files, only in the virtual store.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Alta LLC
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

I have been reading and re-reading your Blogs. I think I have it all
"straight" now.

By the way - thanks for the very helpful and detailed Blogs.

--
Best Regards,

Andy Morgan
c63

[NewsArchive]

Hi Andy,

> By the way - thanks for the very helpful and detailed Blogs.

Welcome, I was just about to suggest you take a look, but I guess I was too
late<g>

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Alta LLC
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php