Cause of Bad Downloads

[NewsArchive]

What are the likely cause of bad downloads?

I have a customer who is consistently getting bad downloads. This is a run
of the mill small client with nothing out of the ordinary AFAIK.

--
Lynn Howard
www.linkedsoftware.com

[NewsArchive]

> What are the likely cause of bad downloads?
>
> I have a customer who is consistently getting bad downloads. This is a run
> of the mill small client with nothing out of the ordinary AFAIK.

In no particular order:

1. Using a download manager.

2. Using FireFox instead of IE

3. Using AOL as an ISP

4. Being on a dialup connection

5. Hosting a download on a cheap server where there are inadequate
resources or there are too many accounts.

Those are a few...

:-)

Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
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and Forms!"
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www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

>> What are the likely cause of bad downloads?
>>
>> I have a customer who is consistently getting bad downloads. This is a run
>> of the mill small client with nothing out of the ordinary AFAIK.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> 1. Using a download manager.
>
> 2. Using FireFox instead of IE

Charles,

OK, I know you use IE all the time, and you know I use Firefox A LOT! :-D

Do you have any scientific data backing this up! :-D

I have used FireFox for years - FOR ALL kinds of downloads - downloads
available to the public, private downloads for commercial software that I
bought, and many diverse download locations...

AND except for those HUGE Windows 7 beta and RC downloads or other
Microsoft locations where you must use a special Download Manager (I have
found in general, if it's Microsoft - use IE)

I have successfully downloaded thousands of uncorrupted files by using the
FireFox browser.

And, I just brought up Windows 7 - RC candidate - 3GB plus 64 bit version
download, and the download manager successfully stated under FireFox
3.0.12.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.8 - Encourager Software
Product Scope 7 Viewer - NO Registration Fee! Free to Use!
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

> OK, I know you use IE all the time, and you know I use Firefox A LOT! :-D

I recently spent some time writing Clarion code to workaround an IIS6 (or
IE, still not sure) bug that prevents IE from downloading a zip or exe from
an IIS server. Not a mime type issue, just some weird thing that even MSFT
cant seem to figure out.

Life sure is weird sometimes.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

>> OK, I know you use IE all the time, and you know I use Firefox A LOT! :-D
>
> I recently spent some time writing Clarion code to workaround an IIS6 (or
> IE, still not sure) bug that prevents IE from downloading a zip or exe from
> an IIS server. Not a mime type issue, just some weird thing that even MSFT
> cant seem to figure out.
>
> Life sure is weird sometimes.

Definitely - I am a firm believer in "USE what works First!", Then choose
it by your preference! AND, if what works and your preference are one and
the same - fine.

Too many get hung up over MS methods or browsers, etc.

As a Microsoft Partner, you don't fight the browser war - just use IE -
you'll be MUCH happier, more productive, and won't run into "browser
warnings".

BUT, if you prefer an alternative browser for other work, AND it gets the
job done, use what is most efficient for your way of working.

HOWEVER, ALWAYS - ALWAYS - test your posted web site work in ALL the major
browsers - FIRST and foremost - IE and FireFox, then others.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.8 - Encourager Software
Product Scope 7 Viewer - NO Registration Fee! Free to Use!
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

> OK, I know you use IE all the time, and you know I use Firefox A LOT! :-D
> Do you have any scientific data backing this up! :-D

Actually there was a recent thread in a web design group that I follow
where a couple of people had been getting corrupt downloads for weeks.

At someone's suggestion, they used IE instead of FF and it downloaded
perfectly the first time.

FF is a mostly robust tool, but it has a serious flaw in that any Tom Dick
and Harry out there can write a plug in for it.

Many of these are quite nice.

Some are crap and cause problems with FireFox.

The safest bet is always a copy of IE that does NOT have Google, Yahoo or
any of the other toolbars installed (for the same reasons that some
plug-ins cause problems in FF.

I never install ANY of that crap into my IE.

Why do you think I NEVER have problems with it<g>?

:-)

Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

>> OK, I know you use IE all the time, and you know I use Firefox A LOT! :-D
>> Do you have any scientific data backing this up! :-D
>
> Actually there was a recent thread in a web design group that I follow
> where a couple of people had been getting corrupt downloads for weeks.
>
> At someone's suggestion, they used IE instead of FF and it downloaded
> perfectly the first time.

Charles,

Well, of course, there are exceptions (and as I pointed out - basically, if
you use Microsoft sites - special MS download managers, etc - it ONLY makes
sense to use IE) but...

what you are quoting are a few exceptional situations - not a consistent
behavior of a browser to be considered a "problem browser for downloads".

AND, Not the 20 Plus percent of the browser market that use FireFox very
consistently to download, browse, etc.

SO, IMHO - it doesn't belong on a "likely cause of bad downloads" list -
but then again, that's just my opinion from years of use and thousands of
useable downloads...

JAT,

David


--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.8 - Encourager Software
Product Scope 7 Viewer - NO Registration Fee! Free to Use!
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
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[NewsArchive]

> SO, IMHO - it doesn't belong on a "likely cause of bad downloads" list -
> but then again, that's just my opinion from years of use and thousands of
> useable downloads...

The post was not a slam on Firefox, but rather a simple sanity check.

People install all sorts of crap that messes them up and YES, the ease of
who knows how may hundreds or thousands of plugins for FireFox make it a
prime candidate for getting it messed up.

So if that is their primary browser and they are having problems, they NEED
to get back to basics to see what the problem is.

This means a clean version of IE.

If that does not work then it is usually a problem on the other end.

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

> What are the likely cause of bad downloads?
>
> I have a customer who is consistently getting bad downloads. This is a run
> of the mill small client with nothing out of the ordinary AFAIK.

What kind of server?
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

>This means a clean version of IE.

Means just as well a clean version of FF. BTW, IE, even "clean", does
not work quite as well or as fast as FF, on my machine and a few
others...

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

Charles is 100% correct on this one. I am quite amazed that any of the open
source stuff works with the rubbish that can get plugged into it. There is
zero quality control. And do not give the community checks and balances
argument that always gets thrown to defend the paradigm. It is
unconvincing. The miracle is that any of it works. This is not a defence
of MS but, as Charles says, a sanity check.

J André Labuschagné

[NewsArchive]

> There is
> zero quality control.

Yeah, sure. Microsoft believed the same thing until it started spanking
them.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mark

Hardly a spanking. The Open Source offerings we have encountered out here
are a riot. It is not uncommon for Open Source evangelists to be asking for
jobs at proprietary companies of late. Most are discovering that it is, in
fact, unconvincing to most users and a bad business model. Ask Friedrich os
SetupBuilder. He can tell you a thing or two on this one. If they got
serious about what they are doing the market would take them seriously and
then they would give MS a decent go. Nothing wrong with much of the
technology, just chaos when you start plugging completely uncontrollable
bits. We experience this virtually on a daily basis where we encounter
these self-proclaimed experts.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

> We experience this virtually on a daily basis where we encounter
> these self-proclaimed experts.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about open source projects (like Apache,
MySQL, Joomla and Wordpress to name a few), not "evangelists" and
"self-proclaimed experts".
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mark

These general purpose tools have a space as their maintenance after a while
becomes marginal. The problem is with specialized apps that are far more
difficult to co-ordinate. The only specific purpose projects we have seen
that have been successful are those that are developed in a very controlled
environment that virtually replicates the proprietary model. I read a book
on this very topic by an Open Source guru a few months ago wherein this much
was admitted. The only area where momentum is gained is where there is some
benefactor who funds the project but even these folk get tired of it when
there re no real monetary returns. This fellow burnt arount $US5 million in
about five years then hung the project on Source Forge to dry. The problem
with Open Source is not so much what these folk are doing but how they are
doing it. It is not sustainable in the long run and it shows in the mess
that we have found ourselves picking up where the client has been abandoned.
As a matter of interest, all the Open Source projects you mention below we
have seen abandoned by clients for proprietary alternatives of late. And
the reason that all cite is accountability, continuity and sustainability.
This is just our experience. Yours may be different.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

>Hardly a spanking. The Open Source offerings we have encountered out here
>are a riot. It is not uncommon for Open Source evangelists to be asking for
>jobs at proprietary companies of late.

I have no ideas what you're talking about, and wonder in what world
you are. PostgreSQL is still avery decent database engine that I
regularly offer to clients instead of MS SQL. Those making that choice
have never complained about it....

And if you talk about professionalism, I really do wish SoftVelocity
took lessons from Joomla, and SharpDevelop.

Bernard

PS-BTW, many open source authors are surely not asking for jobs. They
have very decent ones, at IBM, or even at Microsoft.... Maybe, just
maybe, you have never heard of http://www.codeplex.com/ ? Look there,
down, Copyright....??? While you're at it, read the about thing.... As
already song "Times are changing"....

[NewsArchive]

Hi Bernard

It is not so much about professionalism but accountability, perpetuity and
sustainability. It is common cause that if you want an Open Source project
to die place it on Source Forge. The biggest problem Open Source has is
that the vast majority of users out there are not willing to pay anything
for it, not even the support. That is why we have Open Source die hards
knocking at our door for jobs of late. Initially it is great fun and can
garner a huge amount of comradeship and mutual admiration but many are
finding that it often does not put food on the table. Much of it does work
which is its very nemesis as it clouds most offerings that do not work.

An employee of giants such as IBM is riding on over 100 years of goodwill,
hardly the recent ripple of Open Source we have experienced. They have are
riding on what economists refer to as critical mass and are living on the
capital of the past. This momentum will continue, especially with IBM as
most of their work is directed at systems and not specific applications.
They are wallowing in the borrowed capital of the past and are likel to do
so no matter what they services they offer, Open Source or proprietary.
Most decent Open Source software has been written on the payroll of some
other sucker who has ben ultimately paying for it but mostly does not
realize it.

BTW Bernard, I think it was you who posted an article that advised Open
Source employees on how to lock their employers in by making themselves
indispensable. It was a few years ago and I have been looking for that link
for some time now. Do you recall at all as I would really like to lay my
hands on it?

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

> Nothing wrong with much of the
>technology, just chaos when you start plugging completely uncontrollable
>bits.

Actually a pretty good description of the DLL Hell created by
Microsoft.

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

> There is
>zero quality control.

It never sound very professional to assert something when you have no
ideas what you talk about.

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

I don't know the server type Mark. I'll check today.

They've been downloading my apps for about 8 years with no problems until
yesterday.

Thanks to all who responded.

Lynn

[NewsArchive]

Apache (courtesy of idserve.exe: http://www.grc.com/id/IDServe.htm )

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Jane.

There sure is a lot of neat stuff out there somewhere. <G>

Lynn Howard

[NewsArchive]

Lynn,
You didn't say anything about what type of connection this customer
has. Awhile back I was having random problems with downloads from
various places and eventually it became very serious. Eventually I was
able to get Qwest to admit that there was a problem with our phone
line and once that was fixed my 1.5Mb DSL connection has been working
fine for many weeks.

You might want to create a reasonable sized zip file and place it on
your host server for that customer to download and then have Winzip
verify the download. If the customer has more than one computer ask
them to try the download from different comptuers.
-- Roger Due

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Roger et al.

The customer says the download worked fine today. Go figure.

Lynn

[NewsArchive]

> As a matter of interest, all the Open Source projects you mention below we
> have seen abandoned by clients for proprietary alternatives of late.

Is that open source's problem (conceptually) or the client having misguided
expectations?

IE: No one downloads Linux and expects it to save them time.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

> The biggest problem Open Source has is
> that the vast majority of users out there are not willing to pay anything
> for it, not even the support.

If they arent willing to pay, they arent prospects anyhow.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mark

In my 30 odd years of experience in this industry clients only use what
works for them with the least amount of effort. Perception has nothing to
do with it, only reality. You go and work it out.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

> In my 30 odd years of experience in this industry clients only use what
> works for them with the least amount of effort.

I assume youre speaking of the education industry?
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Nope - I worked in the accounting space for very many years where we
serviced clients of various sizes from the largest banks and manufacturers
on the planet to your mom and pop shop around the corner. To a man they
conceive computers as tools, nothing more. They want them to work and save
them money and cost them the least amount of effort. The education
industry, where I am spending most of time now, is very interesting as we
are seeing a swing from Open Source in the tertiary sector where there are
many failed projects. What seems to be happening is those ultimately
accountable for these things are getting fed up with the experimentation and
lack of delivery. What has fascinated us is the hype about Open Source as
we are experiencing the exact opposite. From a simple business point of
view it all makes sense to me as you cannot run a business as a charity.
Shuttleworth of Ubuntu fame has been quoted from time to time of his
frustration as he is bleeding money with no return. The novelty has worn
off and the reality has set in. Most Open Source projects are actually
funded by employers many of whom are blissfully unaware of it. This does
not inspire confidence in those potential consumers who dig a little deeper
than the free to do whatever you want with it mantra.

J André Labuschagné

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mark

They are willing to pay for MS stuff but not the Open Source stuff. That is
the strange part of it all. They seem to have worked it out that Open
Source costs them a hell of a lot more in the long run. So they tell me.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

> They seem to have worked it out that Open
> Source costs them a hell of a lot more in the long run.

When it comes to operating systems, they wont get any argument from me. I
like my site on Linux but I dont want to be the one who has to run it:)
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Exactly. We do have one client site that is quite hyped on Linux and it all
works exremely well for them for one reason only - they a resident geek who
wines and dines on silicon chips. This fellow is actually brilliant, lives
on the property, is virtually permanently on the network and keeps the thing
ticking over. However, he is both an asset and a liablity to the
organization. When he leaves they will need to install Windows technology
as the chances of them replacing him is marginal. He is a rare find.

BTW - the database we use will run on vritually any platform so we are
geared up to service anyone really. We just insist on resident geeks if
they use something like Linux as the cost of servicing and ownership is
generally much higher than Windows. It is a moving target and no one really
knows who is holding the target. Linux works well for those who have the
resources and resident geeks.

J André Labuschagné

[NewsArchive]

> Linux works well for those who have the
> resources and resident geeks.

Professional web hosts have no problem staffing those positions.

Id *never* run it on my own, windows or otherwise.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Our clients host everything themselves. None of them outsource. They
cannot as it is impractical.

J André Labuschagné

[NewsArchive]

> Our clients host everything themselves. None of them outsource. They
> cannot as it is impractical.

Intranets or public facing sites? If the former, I can see that.

If not, I cant see how its practical for a school to have someone on staff
capable of managing public-facing web host and email security these days
(as well as keeping up with daily changes in that arena).

Obviously, Im missing something in the equation here.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

[NewsArchive]

Thank you Bernard. You are most kind.

J André Labuschagné

[NewsArchive]

> It is common cause that if you want an Open Source project
>to die place it on Source Forge.

You are using big words to defend your opinion. It seems, from your
answer, you did not bother to follow the link I posted.

Seems to me that, after declaring in a very public way that Open
Source was Evil and un-american, to see Microsoft helping, favoring
and hosting Open Source projects should give food for thoughts to
anyone in the software business.

But why think when you already know everything?

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

>Thank you Bernard. You are most kind.
You're very welcome. My pleasure..... ;-)

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mark

Outside. Education is an extremely wide field. We service the top end.
Some of these institutions have in excess of US$300 million turnover. They
have a full resident IT staff component and deal with all the issues you
mention. The equation you are missing is understanding the clients we
service. You are obviously thinking of the local suburban government
school. That is generally not or market although we do have a few of those
where they are serviced by excellent consultants.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

> The equation you are missing is understanding the clients we
> service.

Thats kinda what I was thinking. With more complete info, the situation
makes far more sense.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/
If Guy Kawasaki and the staff of the Wall Street Journal,
Fast Company & Business Week read it, maybe you should too.

Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/MarkRiffey
Friend me on Facebook at http://facebook.com/MarkRiffey

[NewsArchive]

Hi Bernard

I can only assume that English is not your first language. Now listen
carefully and listen well:

[1] I did not say Open Source was or is evil. It is a sociological movement
like any other that plays itself out in life. I would suggest that you
purchase the respected study by renowned academic Steven Webber. The volume
is titled The Success Of Open Source. He tries to make sense of it. The
jury is still out on the movement. It is neither evil nor good. It is just
a phenomenon like anything else in life.

[2] I hold no opinion on Open Source so I have nothing to defend. I am
simply sharing what we are seeing in the market place. That is all.

[3] It is in the best interests for MS to work together with Open Source or
any other movement that may threaten its existence. Again, I refer you to a
brilliant volume that will explain to you why MS or any company would do
what they have done. It is called The 48 Laws Of Power by Robert Greene.
Know thine enemy, Bernard, and know them well, if you can. MS has done this
pretty well and it would appear that Windows 7 may very well be the answer
for one of the battles. The reviews have generally been brilliant, even by
some Linux pundits.

[4] I actually know nothing Bernard. I consider myself a participant
observer and from time to time share my experience. I could very well be
wrong. However, the Linux mates I have, and they are many, agree that if
you want an Open Source project to die place it on Source Forge. A
well-documented project that was meant to kill MS Outlook was the Chandler
project. It has been well-documented in Scott Roseberg's Dreaming In Code.
I would really encourage you to read it. It provided me with renewed
insight into the Open Source movement and waht really goes on behind closed
doors.

[5] Lastly, please do not get upset when someone questions the reality that
surrounds you. There are other experiences going on in the world and the
market moves differently in different sectors.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

>[2] I hold no opinion on Open Source so I have nothing to defend. I am
>simply sharing what we are seeing in the market place. That is all.

You are reporting what you think you see on your little end of your
specific market. You don't see the market place, as you can't see the
world. Neither do I.

>[3] It is in the best interests for MS to work together with Open Source or
>any other movement that may threaten its existence.

Interesting. This thread started with your words: "Hardly a spanking.
" Now you say that it may threaten MS existence. I did not know a
spanking could kill you!

>[4] I actually know nothing Bernard. I consider myself a participant
>observer and from time to time share my experience. I could very well be
>wrong. However, the Linux mates I have, and they are many, agree that if
>you want an Open Source project to die place it on Source Forge. A
>well-documented project that was meant to kill MS Outlook was the Chandler
>project. It has been well-documented in Scott Roseberg's Dreaming In Code.
>I would really encourage you to read it. It provided me with renewed
>insight into the Open Source movement and waht really goes on behind closed
>doors.

I don't read books providing insight into the Open Source Movement,
because I really don't care that much. I see where my interest is, and
use tools doing what I need them to. If I need a cordless drill to
make a few holes in a wall, I'll go to a tool shop, see the prices,
performances, robustness, and my wallet, and make my choices with
those elements. If one of them was free, I would be dumb to not try
it! I'll throw it away if it does not do what I expect, and keep it as
long as it perfoms as expected. I don't serve the 10 best of any
industry, and don't do world strategies. I am a little guy in my
little corner who knows how to read, and how to use a tool when he
read the user's manual. That's all I have, and that's all I measure
with. Still, when anyone will be able to prove to me that me or my
clients would be better off paying at least $2500 to install MS SQL
2008 instead of PostgreSQL, I may start changing my mind.

I could not care less about a Ph.D. explaining to me the inner
mechanisms of the Open Source Economy, cause the time he publish his
book Open Source will already be different from what he observed!

>[5] Lastly, please do not get upset when someone questions the reality that
>surrounds you. There are other experiences going on in the world and the
>market moves differently in different sectors.

Exactly! So please don't get upset when I, or others, question the
urticary you get when someone talk positively about open source.

What makes me really wonder in your posts about this, is that it seems
you defend yourself against an Open Source competition. If you are in
such a position, maybe the best thing to do is to change position. As
you rightly said, Microsoft stopped being defensive because it was in
it's best interest. Who knows, maybe it's in yours too?

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

Hi Bernard

As suspected, you did not read my first sentence and simply ignored it.
Nothing changes. Over and out.

Cheers
Andre

[NewsArchive]

>As suspected, you did not read my first sentence and simply ignored it.
>Nothing changes. Over and out.

Careful. You draw conclusions without evidence. The fact that I did
not directly comment and quote your first sentence does not mean I did
not read it. In fact, I answer it later, as I answered your 2
recommandations of books to read in only one sentence.

Your first sentence state an opinion, which you try to validate by
referencing some author. If Open Source is "only" a sociological
movement, it's a fad. The thing is, Open Source "translate" in the
software world what exists since Science exists. Scientists have
always shared their knowledge, by different means, publications,
congress, etc, etc. As soon as the Internet became something else than
a pure DOD project, it got used by faculties. Remember Mosaïc, before
Netscape? Came out from the Cern of Geneva. Without Open Source and
the scientist movement (more exactly, the nuclear physicists
community) around the Internet, we may still not have a browser...

Is it good or bad? Or neutral? You tell me: is working together on
projects, like many scientists around the world do, good or bad? I am
not a scientist, so I don't have a personal opinion, but as a tax
payer, it seems much better if they can avoid to repeat the same
mistakes, each one searching for himself, duplicating efforts and
investments. Now, what seems good for the scientific community is bad
for the software community? Seems hard to believe.

Bernard

[NewsArchive]

Gentlemen,

I would certainly appreciate it if you two took the remainder of your
discussion private or to chat if you wish to continue in public.

Thanks!

<snipped>
--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

Russ forget it - he is doing the same thing on another post on XML ....

;)


Cordialement - Best regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

CGF

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