MSI Installs and Servers

[NewsArchive]

I have just landed a contract which requires my software to be run on a
server. I have 2 questions:

1. The install has to be an MSI install preferably. I have no issues with
"normal" Windows installs but can SB create an MSI install from the same
project file as my "normal" installs?
2. When I install my normal Windows applications I write details to the
registry (i.e. version number). This contract requires 20 separate copies to
run on the server but when updating I need to make sure that all copies are
updated. So reading the registry does not guarantee that every copy has been
updated, only at least one. Is there any obvious way round this?

Thanks

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

> I have just landed a contract which requires my software to be run on a
> server. I have 2 questions:

First of all, congratulations on your contract!

> 1. The install has to be an MSI install preferably. I have no issues with
> "normal" Windows installs but can SB create an MSI install from the same
> project file as my "normal" installs?

Please note that MSI and standard script-based SetupBuilder installations
are completely different animals.

SetupBuilder 7 creates high-performance, low-overhead, highly flexible
native Windows executables. We already have a MSI compiler available which
will be added as an optional feature to a later Developer Edition version.

http://www.lindersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19608

But our own proprietary SetupScript technology is, and will continue to be,
our number one priority. There are various fundamental limitations of MSI
and only our own high-performance state-of-the-art installation technology
gives us full control over the installation process. MSI can only provide
30%-40% of the functionality that is available in our own SetupScript
technology.

http://www.lindersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7622

You can send us your project file and we'll review it to see if it can be
compiled to a MSI install. But an MSI does not support most the cool
functionality that are built-in features in SetupScript (e.g.
If..Then..Else, Loop, String Operations, Security features, Web Install
or Web Update, and so on, and so on).

> 2. When I install my normal Windows applications I write details to the
> registry (i.e. version number). This contract requires 20 separate copies
> to run on the server but when updating I need to make sure that all copies
> are updated. So reading the registry does not guarantee that every copy
> has been updated, only at least one. Is there any obvious way round this?

Not sure how you update. But you can't use any scripting in MSI so it's
very hard to implement any update logic.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Friedrich

The limits to MSI technology seem to be too restrictive then in my case. I
do require logic in there (If ... else etc).

I will get back to the people and see why they cannot accept an exe
installer.

The guy I spoke to briefly said the server would only accept MSI installers
(probably just them being ultra careful) and that they could always create
an MSI installer using my exe. No idea how they would do it nor do I care
<g>.

Not sure why all this hassle but this is a large college serving thousands
of students and other colleges so I suspect they require very demanding
standards perhaps?

Thanks

John

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

> The guy I spoke to briefly said the server would only accept MSI
> installers (probably just them being ultra careful) and that they could
> always create an MSI installer using my exe. No idea how they would do it
> nor do I care <g>.

I assume, what they mean is they take your original .EXE and "package" it
into a .MSI file. They do not convert your script logic into a native MSI
(because that's not possible). The result in this case is a "misleading
package" <g>.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I guess so Friedrich. The guy said he could take the installer from the CD
and convert it to an MSI and then it would be OK.

Seems to defeat the object of their security/standards or whatever as they
may just as well leave it as the standard exe.

John

[NewsArchive]

We created a SetupBuilder installer and wrapped it in a MSI using wItem
Installer.
Works great.
The MSI installer calls the SB installer.

Benjamin Krajmalnik

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

I had a requirement to deploy via GPO, so we ended up creating the
installers with SB, and wrapping them using wItem Insatller, which is an
inexpensive MSI install builder.
this way I have the best of both worlds.
This might be a possible solution for John.

Benjamin Krajmalnik

[NewsArchive]

Benjamin - thanks.

I have downloaded and tried it out very quickly without reading the manual!

A few questions:

1. Do you ignore all the installation fodlers etc. as presumably SB deals
with all of that?
2. When I run the setup exe it tells me there is no associated program
although I added the redistributables for MSI.
3. It looks like a very old application as the IDE is old looking and the
installer is not even code signed. Is this trustworthy?
4. Do you distribute the self extracting exe or the MSI file?

I do not want to waste a great deal of time on this as the people putting
this on say they can do this for me but if this works for me I would
purchase it as it is always handy. Of course maybe Friedrichs solution would
be better to wait for.

So if Friedrich is watching - any idea when the MSI stuff might be ready?

Thanks

John

[NewsArchive]

FWIW... SB can presently create a ZAP file (an INI file that Group Policy
understands).

Applications can be "published" to users with a ZAP file, but they cannot be
"published" to machines or "assigned" (which requires MSI).

"Published" apps appear in add/remove programs and users can install them
from there. In contrast, "assigned" apps are pushed out.

Try googling "group policy assign publish application" for explanation.

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

There is a huge difference between a "native" MSI installation and a simple
"MSI wrapper".

What your new customer will do is to create a MSI wrapper for your original
EXE. If the MSI wrapper is started, it extracts and launches your EXE. In
other words, your EXE is still doing the installation and not the MSI. So
in this case, there is no need to buy wItem Installer! If they said they
will do the wrapping for you then make use of their offer <g>. Otherwise,
we'll do it for you (our SB7 MSI compiler can create a code-signed MSI
wrapper for your EXE).

BTW, the file "sbmsic20.dll" in your SetupBuilder is the MSI compiler.
During the last two years, about 60 companies deployed a few hundred
thousand native MSI installations compiled with SetupBuilder MSI. We are
still working on some nice improvements and plan to make a public beta
available in Q1 2010.

Please note: our own proprietary SetupScript technology is, and will
continue to be, our number one priority! Microsoft changed the Logo
certification process and as a result, MSI is not even required any
longer to meet "Certified for Windows 7" Logo requirements. And a MSI
file is an "open book". You can use free Microsoft tools to open the
MSI (it's a simple SQL database), extract files, change "the flow"
of the installation, etc.). I think it's interesting to note that most
of our new customers move *FROM* a .msi based installer *TO* a
SetupBuilder deployment solution.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Benjamin,

> I had a requirement to deploy via GPO, so we ended up creating the
> installers with SB, and wrapping them using wItem Insatller, which is an
> inexpensive MSI install builder.
> this way I have the best of both worlds.
> This might be a possible solution for John.

Yes, as I understand it, they only need the original SetupBuilder .EXE
wrapped into a .MSI. Our own SB7 MSI compiler technology can already handle
this. If there is enough interest in such a "EXE to MSI Wrapper" option, it
would not be a problem to add this to SetupBuilder.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

> Yes, as I understand it, they only need the original SetupBuilder .EXE
> wrapped into a .MSI.

I love the fact that such an action is all it takes to make a bad installer
( exe ) into a good one ( msi ).

These "experts" are such idiots<g>.

"Oh no, we don't allow anything but MSI installers on our LAN fortress..."

( rolls eyes )

> Our own SB7 MSI compiler technology can already handle
> this. If there is enough interest in such a "EXE to MSI Wrapper" option, it
> would not be a problem to add this to SetupBuilder.

If it is not a big deal then I think it might be a cool addition. No need
for a developer to look any further than SetupBuilder..

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles,

> I love the fact that such an action is all it takes to make a bad
> installer ( exe ) into a good one ( msi ).
>
> These "experts" are such idiots<g>.
>
> "Oh no, we don't allow anything but MSI installers on our LAN fortress..."
>
> ( rolls eyes )

<G> I have seen thousands of those "cheated packages". The file extension
is .MSI, but in fact, a wrapped script-based .EXE is doing the real work.

>> Our own SB7 MSI compiler technology can already handle
>> this. If there is enough interest in such a "EXE to MSI Wrapper" option,
>> it would not be a problem to add this to SetupBuilder.
>
> If it is not a big deal then I think it might be a cool addition. No need
> for a developer to look any further than SetupBuilder..

I agree. The SB7 MSI compiler makes it possible to create native .MSI
installations. So we can also use it to wrap .EXE installers into .MSI.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I agree Charles. No idea why they insist on an MSI install but they seemed
surprised that my installer was a strandard Windows exe. As if they thought
I would use azip file or something!

As Friedrich suggested as they offered I will take advantage of the wrapper.
But I will tell them that it is no longer required for MS certification.
That might make them sit up and think <g>

As for SB, well IF some are still insisting on MSI installs then I would
imagine the wrapper built into SB would be perfect. Would give us all the
best of all worlds that way.

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

I gave it some thoughts and this is the plan. I'll add an "EXE to MSI
Wrapper" option to SB7 Developer Edition. This allows to wrap a standard
script-based .EXE installer into a .MSI. And then there will be the MSI
compiler option to compile native MSI installations in a later SB7.x
Developer Edition version.

SetupBuilder can then compile 1.) high-performance script-based .EXE
installer, 2.) wrap .EXE into .MSI and 3.) Create native MSI installations.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> SetupBuilder can then compile 1.) high-performance script-based .EXE
> installer, 2.) wrap .EXE into .MSI and 3.) Create native MSI installations.

Maybe an option to create both versions in the same compile (or with a
prompt at the end for the MSI).

That would allow developers to distribute both versions without needing to
go in and change settings.

JAT...

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

> Maybe an option to create both versions in the same compile (or with a
> prompt at the end for the MSI).
>
> That would allow developers to distribute both versions without needing to
> go in and change settings.
>
> JAT...

My idea was to make this available as a #convert .exe to .msi..." compiler
directive to give full control.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

That is fantastic Friedrich. Thank you!

John

[NewsArchive]

> My idea was to make this available as a #convert .exe to .msi..." compiler
> directive to give full control.

That would work.

Maybe a checkbox option to leave the EXE intact (or not).

That way a developer who wanted to provide both (or not) would be all set.

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles,

>> My idea was to make this available as a #convert .exe to .msi..."
>> compiler directive to give full control.
>
> That would work.
>
> Maybe a checkbox option to leave the EXE intact (or not).
>
> That way a developer who wanted to provide both (or not) would be all set.

By default, it converts a .exe to .msi and leaves the original .exe intact.

If the developer only needs the .msi (and not the .exe) then the code looks
like this:

#exe2msi from "[SB_PROJECT]\test.exe" to "[SB_PROJECT]\test.msi"
#delete [SB_PROJECT]\test.exe

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

>
> That is fantastic Friedrich. Thank you!
>

We'll try to make this new "exe2msi" functionality available in the next SB7
build.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,
Now that is a SLICK marketing solution!!!
-- Roger Due

[NewsArchive]

>
> Now that is a SLICK marketing solution!!!
>

:-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Thanks!
Now it will make my life easier, since I will not have to externally wrap
the exe into an MSI anymore.
wItem Installer is about to get the boot!

Benjamin Krajmalnik

[NewsArchive]

> wItem Installer is about to get the boot!

"In the future - all installers are SetupBuilder..."

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

And I get a huge commission for coming up with the idea <vbg>

John Fligg