Clarion 6 on Vista and 3rd Party Products [May 04, 2007]

[NewsArchive]

Our technical support still receives "Vista 3rd party detection problem"
emails (110 in April) on a daily basis. Please allow me to repost the
following:

All,

As you probably know, the Windows Vista operating system provides a new
security feature named User Account Control (UAC). A Vista-aware installer
is required in order to correctly install your installations on Vista. The
same is true for Windows "Longhorn" (beta).

Even if your 3rd party vendor provides a Vista-aware installer, it's not
possible to correctly auto-detect the installed Clarion version.

The original Clarion 6 installer is unable to write to the win.ini file on
Windows Vista (or Windows "Longhorn") because this action requires
administration execution level privileges.

We have developed a small free "Clarion 6 Vista Installation Fix" installer
compiled with SetupBuilder 6.5.

You can download this code-signed application at:
http://lindersoft.com/c6_vista_fix.exe

You can use this on Windows Vista and Windows "Longhorn".

Just follow the wizard to apply the fix and all 3rd party installers should
be able to auto-detect your Clarion 6 environment on Vista.

To uninstall the "Clarion 6 Vista Installation Fix", just start
"c6_vista_fix.exe" again or use the "Uninst_Clarion 6 Installation Fix for
Vista.exe" uninstaller application located in your Clarion 6 folder.

Hope this helps.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

"point. click. ship" - that's SetupBuilder 6
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

It's on the Clarion Connection, so people can find it there.
(Been there since 3/20. I just brought it to the top)

Tom Ruby

[NewsArchive]

Thank you, Tom!!

BTW, if someone is interested in a few figures:

690 users downloaded c6_vista_fix.exe. Please remember, this fix is for
Vista (and Clarion 6) users only.

We have 40,000 web site visitors per month. Already 5% are using Vista
(April 2007). In March, about 3% were using Vista.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

"point. click. ship" - that's SetupBuilder 6
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Hello,

Thanks ... in my opinion, people are mostly using VISTA at home versus
work/business computers. No IT company is rolling out computers with VISTA
on them. Businesses that are small (one and two man shops).

From our user base of 3300 (10,000+ workstations), less than 30 are running
VISTA.

-Robert

[NewsArchive]

That WILL change as businesses upgrade workstations.

From an IT professional's point of view, Vista has a lot of advantages. Its
imaging/deployment/scripting is way better than prior versions of
Windows/RIS (and has some advantages over Ghost), Event Viewer is much
improved, there's additional under-the-hood security affecting stuff such as
named pipes, there are hundreds of new Group Policy settings, no more
default LM hashes, tighter reins on services....

Jane

[NewsArchive]

Jane,

> From an IT professional's point of view, Vista has a lot of advantages. Its
> imaging/deployment/scripting is way better than prior versions of
> Windows/RIS (and has some advantages over Ghost), Event Viewer is much
> improved, there's additional under-the-hood security affecting stuff such as
> named pipes, there are hundreds of new Group Policy settings, no more
> default LM hashes, tighter reins on services....

And a far more complicated interface which equates to job security!<g>

--
Lee White

http://CWaddons.com
http://LodestarSoftware.com
http://DeveloperPLUS.com

Programmer: code writer working with a schema provided by a DBA
DBA.......: egghead who designs database schemas
Developer.: drain bamaged masochist that does BOTH!

[NewsArchive]

See, Lee.....

I KNEW YOU would understand! <g>

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

Robert,

While I agree with what you are saying for the most part, I think the trend
will be changing shortly.

I have a varying client base.
For one product (tax related - CPAs) I was able to postpone Vista support
mainly because the major tax software vendors told the CPAs "No Vista
Support until July".
They are able to say that with authority, but I'm not. So when they support
Vista, I need to was well.
For my non-CPA clients for this product (end users), I'd say 50% went to
Vista quickly or bot new workstations with Vista installed. They are the
small businesses you describe.

For another product (Law Firm related) the move is already on. For one
local firm where I do support work, we are already installing Vista/O2007 on
select machines. They will be replacing all their workstations this summer
(approx 100) and upgrading to Exchange 2007. The biggest problem is other
3rd party software support (Lexis/Nexus, etc.) which isn't there yet - but
they (Lexis) tell me the demand is high and they will deliver soon.

My impression of your client base (hotels, etc.) is that they do not upgrade
to latest and greatest. They lag behind because of return on investment and
reliability - which is all wise in my opinion.

Many other markets are technology driven. CPAs in particular and technical
consultants to many clients. They need to keep up whether it's good for
them or not.

Paul

[NewsArchive]

Paul,

If someone comes from the Accounting Department, Manufacturing Department,
HR Department, Sales Department, Marketing Department, etc. to the IT
department and says "I need VISTA".

The answer is:

1. Go Away
2. You don't need it

I've worked in the corporate world for many years. IT departments don't
upgrade anyone's computer until they upgrade their own. Same with me. I
won't change my accounting or support or even the sales staff until I am
running it first, and have tested it.

It's no different than XP.

It will take 9-12 months before IT departments put any effort into switching
out workstations to VISTA.

1. Because they lazy and it's just more work
2. No one will do anything until the magic "SP1" appears

For our sites ... it's just a waste of time to upgrade an operating system,
there is no benefit. Same with my sales, marketing and support
departments. There is no benefit for us to take time out of our day to
upgrade someone's workstation, only to be bothered by silly glitches a week
later.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :-)

I'm not even going to upgrade my work computer ... I ordered my DELL with
VISTA on it today for work ... this way, I don't have to deal with upgrade
issues.

-Robert

[NewsArchive]

You're seeing the beginnings of a trend. The tipping point is getting close.

The stock market is booming here and earnings figures are way up for a lot
of companies. And that means they want to pump profits back into their
businesses. In the U.S., that tends to mean hardware upgrades.

I'm hearing more and more from folks interested in moving and leaning on
their software vendors to move forward with them. I'm on the road with
clients next week and we'll be addressing two topics: (1) how do they
leverage a new massive hardware upgrade to get in front of their competition
and (2) what do they do with all these barrels of cash.

This new operating system upgrade will catch most developers flat footed as
developers were concerned about legacy compatibility on one hand and they
were too tight to upgrade hardware on the other. No one knew just how much
hardware it was going to take to comfortably run Vista and Office.

But slow adoption of Vista by professionals means something very important:
getting in front of Vista is going to be profitable for those few folks who
are experienced with it.
--
--
Andrew Guidroz II

[NewsArchive]

Our quality people have a vista computer. They run all of our software on
it. It seems to run nicely. We have anxient C55 programs and new C63
programs. Since we aren't allowed it in development yet, I haven't tried
running Clarion on Vista.

Tom Ruby

[NewsArchive]

On 4 May 2007 14:28:56 -0400, Andrew Guidroz II wrote:

> This new operating system upgrade will catch most developers flat footed as
> developers were concerned about legacy compatibility on one hand and they
> were too tight to upgrade hardware on the other. No one knew just how much
> hardware it was going to take to comfortably run Vista and Office.
>
> But slow adoption of Vista by professionals means something very important:
> getting in front of Vista is going to be profitable for those few folks who
> are experienced with it.

Yep. I addressed this very issue in a Cmag article a couple months ago.
--

Mark

[NewsArchive]

And a right fine article 'tis, too :)

(He with head in sand sneezes silicon... or something like that...<g>)

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

> (He with head in sand sneezes silicon... or something like that...<g>)

<g>
--

Mark

[NewsArchive]

sillica....

Tom Ruby

[NewsArchive]

Another 142 "c6_vista_fix.exe" downloads yesterday. That means 832 users
downloaded the Vista fix. BTW, 712 users downloaded via a Vista machine.

Just analyzed the web log for May 2007 (okay, not very meaningful because it
only includes log items for 4 1/2 days):

* 6,000 web site visitors
* 6% Vista users
* 75% XP users
* Only 4.8% are still using Win95/98/ME.

* 12.5% are using Firefox
* 68% are Windows Explorer users.
* 10.75% Opera users.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

"point. click. ship" - that's SetupBuilder 6
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich

> We have developed a small free "Clarion 6 Vista Installation Fix"
> installer
> compiled with SetupBuilder 6.5.
> http://lindersoft.com/c6_vista_fix.exe

I tried to install it, but it says "The operating systems is not
adequate...".
I'm still in XP Pro (Spanish if it matters), Do I really need to have Vista
installed to use this fix?

> The original Clarion 6 installer is unable to write to the win.ini file on
> Windows Vista (or Windows "Longhorn") because this action requires
> administration execution level privileges.

If you have a few minutes, could you please explain:

What is the problem with C6?
Does this also happen with C55, C5, C4?
What does this fix fix in SB6?

Thanks!

Carlos Gutierrez

[NewsArchive]

Carlos, you would only run the fix on Vista systems. No need to run it on XP

Ben E. Brady

[NewsArchive]

Ben

> Carlos, you would only run the fix on Vista systems. No need to run it on
> XP

I'm confused.

Don't I need the fix to create installers for Vista users? Or the vista user
has to run the fix?

Carlos Gutierrez

[NewsArchive]

No, it's a fix so installers can find clarion in vista machines for
installing clarion tools.

Tom Ruby

[NewsArchive]

Carlos,

As it is a Vista fix it is obvious Vista OS is REQUIRED

At least that is what it seems to my ignorant eyes :)


The matter is with Vista and not with Clarion or SetupBuilder
That OS is locked like .... name it yourself :)
With the result that to get things installed like in your XP .... some
precautions must be taken

Friedrich very kindly pointed them all out

You will need it when you are under Vista and when you do an install for
your product you sell as a 3rd party vendor (again to my understanding)

For example for my app - not being a 3rd party vendor - meaning my app does
not need to check Clarion version etc ... - I do not need that fix

JP

-- ot with Clarion

Thank you

Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

Best Regards

[NewsArchive]

Jean-Pierre and Friedrich

> As it is a Vista fix it is obvious Vista OS is REQUIRED
> ...
> For example for my app - not being a 3rd party vendor - meaning my app
> does not need to check Clarion version etc ... - I do not need that fix

I'm not sure if I follow. I'm going to rewrite my question

First: I do have the need to create installers which detect C6.

Do I have to install this fix in order to create installers that detect C6?

or

Do all the users who receive my installers need to run this fix before
running my installer?

If the answers is yes for the first question, then I need to be able to
install the patch in my development machine, even if it's XP.

If it's yes to the second question, I would like to know what the patch
does. That is, I would like to know what the problem is and how it's fixed.
I know the problem is Vista's UAC, but I would like to know the details (is
it an INI entry or the registry) and how it affects older Clarion versions.

Sorry if I'm asking something obvious or if it has been explained before, if
that's the case, I'll appreciate a pointer to the information.

Regards,

Carlos Gutierrez

[NewsArchive]

Carlos,

Sorry to seem ignorant but : do you sell 3rd party templates for Clarion
users ?

If that is the case then - again I have no real knowledge except common
understanding and readings here - it would seem your users UNDER Vista need
to use that fix to let your installers find the Clarion dirs etc

I do now know wether you need it yourself IF you are under Vista ... but as
you are not .. this question is set aside

What it does : again to my common sense reading knowledge : it must enable
your SB installer to detect the Clarion settings correctly
How : sorry no idea :)

It would seem - from my understanding Friederich's post - that the people
under Vista and developping under Clarion need that fix installed to get
their 3rd Party installers purchased work properly

Many seems no ? :)

I'm sure Friedrich will let you know exactly what is required by Monday if
no one else steps in before then to explain ...

Hope this shed a small light :)

JP

--

Thank you

Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

Best Regards

[NewsArchive]

Jean-Pierre

> Sorry to seem ignorant but : do you sell 3rd party templates for Clarion
> users ?
My fault, I didn't make this clear at the beginning. Yes, I do sell 3rd.
party templates, I'm not one of the big guys and haven't released anything
new for a while, but I'm working on a new product and also want to move some
old (non-SB) template installers to SB6

> it would seem your users UNDER Vista need to use that fix to let your
> installers find the Clarion dirs etc
Yes, thanks, after your post I re-read Friedrich message and I think now I
understand what he meant.

Carlos Gutierrez

[NewsArchive]

> Jean-Pierre and Friedrich

Carlos, the short answer is - you use the c6_vista_fix.exe FIX provided by
Lindersoft TO:

so 3rd party installers (you are installing a Clarion third party product)
should be able to auto-detect your Clarion 6 environment on Vista.

Here is Friedrich's more complete answer. THIS would be another good one to
put into a blog that can be referenced by all.

Clarion 6 on Vista and Clarion Version Detection for 3rd Party Products

"All,

As you probably know, the Windows Vista operating system provides a new
security feature named User Account Control (UAC). A Vista-aware installer
is required in order to correctly install your installations on Vista. The
same is true for Windows "Longhorn" (beta).

Even if your 3rd party vendor provides a Vista-aware installer, it's not
possible to correctly auto-detect the installed Clarion version.

The original Clarion 6 installer is unable to write to the win.ini file on
Windows Vista (or Windows "Longhorn") because this action requires
administration execution level privileges.

We have developed a small free "Clarion 6 Vista Installation Fix" installer
compiled with SetupBuilder 6.5.

You can download this code-signed application at:
http://lindersoft.com/c6_vista_fix.exe

You can use this on Windows Vista and Windows "Longhorn".

Just follow the wizard to apply the fix and all 3rd party installers should
be able to auto-detect your Clarion 6 environment on Vista.

To uninstall the "Clarion 6 Vista Installation Fix", just start
"c6_vista_fix.exe" again or use the "Uninst_Clarion 6 Installation Fix for
Vista.exe" uninstaller application located in your Clarion 6 folder.

Hope this helps.


--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com"

David

>
>> As it is a Vista fix it is obvious Vista OS is REQUIRED
>> ...
>> For example for my app - not being a 3rd party vendor - meaning my app
>> does not need to check Clarion version etc ... - I do not need that fix
>
> I'm not sure if I follow. I'm going to rewrite my question
>
> First: I do have the need to create installers which detect C6.
>
> Do I have to install this fix in order to create installers that detect
C6?
>
> or
>
> Do all the users who receive my installers need to run this fix before
> running my installer?
>
> If the answers is yes for the first question, then I need to be able to
> install the patch in my development machine, even if it's XP.
>
> If it's yes to the second question, I would like to know what the patch
> does. That is, I would like to know what the problem is and how it's
fixed.
> I know the problem is Vista's UAC, but I would like to know the details
(is
> it an INI entry or the registry) and how it affects older Clarion
versions.
>
> Sorry if I'm asking something obvious or if it has been explained before,
if
> that's the case, I'll appreciate a pointer to the information.
>
> Regards,


--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 32 PRO - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

David - Carlos,

So it seems to confirm what I had said : your Vista users should use that
fix to enable your SB installers which are Visat aware to detect their
clarion dirs etc ....

For you to "Vista aware" an installer use the os selction etc as described
in docs

JP

--

Thank you

Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ

Best Regards

[NewsArchive]

Hello Carlos,

Most 3rd party installations provide a feature to automatically detect the
installed Clarion version and edition.

The Clarion 6 installer stores most of this information in the WIN.INI file.
The problem is that the Clarion 6 installer cannot write to WIN.INI on
Windows Vista or Windows "Longhorn" because this action requires
administration execution level privileges.

As a result, 3rd party installations are unable to detect the correct
Clarion edition (and installation folder) on Vista and Longhorn.

The freeware application c6_vista_fix.exe can solve this problem. It makes
the appropriate WIN.INI modifications so 3rd party installations can detect
Clarion 6 on Vista and Longhorn. You can freely distribute c6_vista_fix.exe
to your customers.

C2, C4, C5, and C55 have the same problem. If there is an interest, we can
also provide a freeware application for C2, C4, C5, and C55.

Does this help?

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

"point. click. ship" - that's SetupBuilder 6
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich

> Does this help?

Yes, thank you. It's clear now. I misunderstood you message, I had the idea
it was a fix for SB.

You mentioned the utility is compiled with SB. Is the source scipt
available?

I wonder if it's possible to integrate the code in our installers. Maybe if
C6 is not detected offer the option to the user to fix their environment.

Regards

Carlos Gutierrez

[NewsArchive]

Carlos,

Good point. I'll improve the script a little bit and then will make the
source script available.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

"point. click. ship" - that's SetupBuilder 6
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner