Variables Lookup

[NewsArchive]

Groundhog day...

Where is the variables 'lookup' button on such items as "Delete File"?

Pic attached... nope, not there
This will be one of those hotkeys I'm supposed to remember .... (reminds me
of DOS)

Being somewhat serious - since everything these days is look-up-able,
wouldn't it be a good idea to enable this on all of these sorts of dialogs?
Stuff like that makes the IDE kinda clunky compared to what we're well used
to now (VS et al)

Ditto for my other suggestion, back in SB6 days, re. resizing panes...
and surely drag & drop to re-position lines in the editor is a must?

All useful changes, in my view - let's get modern!

Steve

[NewsArchive]

Also - after having used Ctrl-Right hotkey and selected the variable into
the script - I notice that the contents of the clipboard (where I had a
piece of text copied) have been replaced with the variable name. Thus I
must assume that you're using the clipboard to transfer from the lookup into
the script.

Can I suggest that this is a bad idea, specifically because it *does*
overwrite anything that may be on the clipboard, "unintentionally" as far as
the user is concerned?

Another 2.5c....

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

> Can I suggest that this is a bad idea, specifically because it *does*
> overwrite anything that may be on the clipboard, "unintentionally" as
> far as the user is concerned?

I agree. Changed in 7.2.2905.

CHANGE: IDE: The "Variable List" (CTRL-Right Mouse) to insert variables does
not overwrite clipboard data.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

like this? (pic)

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

I believe you have entirely missed the point of the post.

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

To elaborate.... check out your own pic...

"...most script items have 'secret' way to get a list..."

My point exactly... 'SECRET'

That's about as close to current standards as Clarion's 16-bit IDE <g>

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

Sorry, I'm obviously being too obscure...

C'mon Jane - you remember the old ellipsis button, don't you?
("..." = look-up)

Another funky and more MS approach would be Intellisense-style;
i.e. if you typed "%" or "[" the appropriate variables list would
auto-appear.

Etc, etc, etc

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

*

[NewsArchive]

I do *not* want to be remembering mickey-mouse hotkeys - that's SO 1990s and
a crappy way to initiate a lookup on an occasionally-used program!

What's wrong with an ellipsis button?


As I wrote to Jane:

C'mon Jane - you remember the old ellipsis button, don't you?
("..." = look-up)

Another funky and more MS approach would be Intellisense-style;
i.e. if you typed "%" or "[" the appropriate variables list would
auto-appear.

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

> I do *not* want to be remembering mickey-mouse hotkeys - that's SO 1990s

I completely disagree.

Regards,

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Yay!

Jeff Slarve

[NewsArchive]

You're right.
Senile old blondes tend to do that.

jf

[NewsArchive]

Well, I learned something from your post anyway.

Jeff Slarve

[NewsArchive]

It's irrelevant whether you agree or disagree - its simply a fact that good
modern software tool interfaces have a variety of ways to access functions:

Had a look at Visual Studio have you?

Even the Clarion 16-bit IDE has ellipsis/lookups for a lot of things!

If following your view we would all still be using Wordstar or WordPefect
control codes in our word processors! (^KR, ^KC.... ugh)

And, of course, some people *will* prefer to use m-mouse hotkeys.
I don't!
And that's the point: CHOICE

> I completely disagree.
Is just ridiculous.. what year is this?

'Whatever'... thought I might contribute and improve the product - wasted my
time, it seems

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

> It's irrelevant whether you agree or disagree

You are right.

> Is just ridiculous.. what year is this?
>
> 'Whatever'... thought I might contribute and improve the product - wasted
> my time, it seems

Thank you for your suggestion and all kind words.

Just for fun, I have created a prototype with your variable selection lockup
buttons. If 1% of the SetupBuilder community give their votes for the new
button then I'll add it to each and every screen.

Regards,

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

As a newb to SB, the lookup buttons has my vote.

Apologies if this is not the place to vote

Thanks and regards
Graham Smith

[NewsArchive]

>> It's irrelevant whether you agree or disagree
>
> You are right.
>
>> Is just ridiculous.. what year is this?
>>
>> 'Whatever'... thought I might contribute and improve the product - wasted
>> my time, it seems
>
> Thank you for your suggestion and all kind words.
>
> Just for fun, I have created a prototype with your variable selection lockup
> buttons. If 1% of the SetupBuilder community give their votes for the new
> button then I'll add it to each and every screen.

Friedrich,

ADD my vote! :-D

Actually, I am glad Steve started this newsgroup thread -

while I can appreciate the keyboard lover of hotkeys such as Lee White and
others - I have always felt it's a good overall combination of hotkeys AND
mouse presses that make working in a GUI - MUCH better!

And the button choice displayed in your future.jpg would just make an
excellent product that much better - thanks for considering these changes.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.9 - Encourager Software
Product Scope 7 Viewer - NO Registration Fee! Free to Use!
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

> Just for fun, I have created a prototype with your variable selection
> lockup
Naturally, you can add my vote....


>If 1% of the SetupBuilder community give their votes for the new
>button then I'll add it to each and every screen.

I think you may have stacked the dice here - how is "the community" en masse
going to know about this?
If we're relying on them finding this thread, then my case is 'done for'...


>Thank you for your suggestion
I have more.... resizing of 'panes' (cf. VS), drag and drop script block...

>...and all kind words.
That'll be irony, right? <BG>

Steve

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich for President

Jeff Slarve

[NewsArchive]

> You're right.
> Senile old blondes tend to do that.

Don't be too hard on yourself...

Yes, my follow-up post DOES indeed start with:

"...after having used Ctrl-Right hotkey ..."



.... but you probably just mislaid your glasses....


Here they are: O^O~

<g>

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

I vote for buttons - and where not appropriate, such as text boxes, right-click
menu options. I'm getting to old to learn new hot keys.

Greg Fasolt

[NewsArchive]

I'm never too old to learn something new.

As for adding lookups, I never noticed any were missing <g>. I'm all for
improving the product and making it easier to use, but against anything that
clutters the picture.

Good luck on figuring out that vote <vbg>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

I gave it some thoughts and in my opinion, interfaces get too cluttered if
we put too many controls on them. So additional buttons on each dialog to
open the Variable List is not a good idea here.

Okay, but Steve did not suggest to add a new button. I came up with the
following solution. I have developed a function to insert a button into an
edit control. The effect of this is very similar to the drop-down button in
a combo box. Yes, we have a new additional button, but it's part of the
edit control now.

When the new inserted button is clicked, the Variable List appears. Of
course, you can continue to use CTRL-Right Mouse.

Attached is a XP and Win7 screenshot.

Friedrich

Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Friedrich! That is near identical to some of my EIP controls in my
apps.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

What about other fields, such as the message box (pic attached) that also
work with the hotkey?
Are you going to add the non-button there as well? Or will users still need
to know the hotkeys for some interfaces?

jf



>I gave it some thoughts and in my opinion, interfaces get too cluttered if
> we put too many controls on them. So additional buttons on each dialog to
> open the Variable List is not a good idea here.
>
>

[NewsArchive]

Maybe a different button that calls an expression builder dialog similar to
Clarion's? It may mean a little more work for Friedrich, but I'm sure he'll
forgive me - someday <bg>.

BTW - it would be a nice feature, but *I* don't have to have it! ;-)

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

Nor do I...
unless it comes in pink... <g>

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

Don't give Friedrich any ideas! <g>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

I never do.

He's ignored my whining for a year or more about having to type in my URL on
each code-signing screen, rather than having a compiler variable or
something that could default to.

But Steve makes some surly posts and Friedrich jumps through hoops.

I just can't get no respect... <G>

jf

[NewsArchive]

> But Steve makes some surly posts and Friedrich jumps through hoops.

Thanks for the 'surly' appellation, Jane!

I would re-characterise as 'direct'... I get impatient when:
a) folks don't bother to read and thus misunderstand my lovingly crafted
texts, and
b) when I'm told 'no' for no good reason (yeah, yeah, so I have Mummy
issues!)

And Friedrich says no to me a lot <g>

But he and I come at things from a different perspective.. I'm a very
occasional user of SB (thankfully my days with desktop apps are
diminishing), so I want stuff to be intuitive, GUI, and in my face.
As one works with other, more modern apps than Clarion and its children,
one's expectations rise. So when I see things that could be done better,
I 'suggest'....
....in a 'direct' fashion..


> He's ignored my whining for a year or more about having to type in my URL
> on each code-signing screen, rather than having a compiler variable or
> something that could default to.

Friedrich - pay attention to her!

Now I'm going to run away...

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

> I gave it some thoughts and in my opinion, interfaces get too cluttered if
> we put too many controls on them. So additional buttons on each dialog to
> open the Variable List is not a good idea here.
>
> Okay, but Steve did not suggest to add a new button. I came up with the
> following solution. I have developed a function to insert a button into an
> edit control. The effect of this is very similar to the drop-down button in
> a combo box. Yes, we have a new additional button, but it's part of the
> edit control now.

Friedrich,

Looks very functional and will satisfy both camps! Good idea.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.9 - Encourager Software
Product Scope 7 Viewer - NO Registration Fee! Free to Use!
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich at al

It seems completely obvious to me that you would place a lookup button
*everywhere* that the hotkey works.

Thus the GUI-addicted amongst us ('mousers') .... as well as newbies and
those-who-only-occasionally-use-the-program would not have to look
for/remember the "secret" - (c) JF - key codes.
(and those that choose to, may continue to)

I'm sorry, but submitting to views such as 'the app doesn't look as
clean/pretty' is a triumph of style over content.... <g>

Steve

[NewsArchive]

Steve,

> It seems completely obvious to me that you would place a lookup button
> *everywhere* that the hotkey works.

Yes, if an entry controls supports the CTRL-Right Mouse hotkey then the
"optional" lookup button is also supported now.

I say "optional" because I have added a new checkbox to the IDE Options.
The global "Disable Variable List 'lockup' button" checkbox allows you to
enable/disable the new feature.

BTW, I'll definitely leave the new feature enabled!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jane,

> What about other fields, such as the message box (pic attached) that also
> work with the hotkey?
> Are you going to add the non-button there as well? Or will users still
> need to know the hotkeys for some interfaces?

Yes, good point. The new 'lockup' button can't be used in multiline
controls. In this case, a "standard" button is displayed.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Geez Steve, your a real prick today()

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

[NewsArchive]

Why pick today?

Got anything pertinent to add?

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

I did bother to read your original post, to which I replied. It showed no
indication that you'd come upon the hotkey so I volunteered the information.
Your second post, to which I did not reply, indicates that you found the
hotkey but didn't like it.

I'm aware that some men have mummy issues.
I think you've displayed rudeness that goes beyond that, but whatever floats
your boat. (I've seen pictures of Friedrich, and he doesn't look like any
mummy I know).

The criteria by which you judge what is an acceptable attempt at a helpful
reply to one of your questions will certainly remind me to be a good girl
and keep my mouth shut in the future.

jf

[NewsArchive]

Everyone else digs you.

Jeff Slarve

[NewsArchive]

Jeff,

> Everyone else digs you.

Jane's been to Gatlinburg, she HAS no alternative but to be right!<g>

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Reports....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
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Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/

[NewsArchive]

Well, since you seem to want to be pedantic, Jane...

* My view is that you replied with completely redundant information - your
'answer' was posted significantly AFTER my post detailing the use of Ctrl-
blah hotkey.

* But the existence of said secret code was *NOT* the point of the post
anyway! (Thus my comment about you missing the point, which you did). The
point was that I expect a GUI option on all this stuff.


I won't bother to respond to the rest... reactive stuff.

Steve Bywaters

[NewsArchive]

> I just can't get no respect... <G>

You just need a bigger pistol.

"Dirty Jane" with a 44 Magnum comes to mind...

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

Shouldn't it be "Lookup" instead of "Lockup"?

--
Regards,

Lee
http://www.cya2day.com

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

>
> Shouldn't it be "Lookup" instead of "Lockup"?
>

Hehehe.... Seems to me I was inspired by Sly Stallone's "Lock Up" movie.
Of course, you are right. It should be "Lookup".

Thanks,
Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Friedrich - I think that this is a real improvement to the ease
of use of SB (from the UI PoV).

Steve

[NewsArchive]

> I gave it some thoughts and in my opinion, interfaces get too cluttered if
> we put too many controls on them. So additional buttons on each dialog to
> open the Variable List is not a good idea here.

I agree 100%.

> Okay, but Steve did not suggest to add a new button. I came up with the
> following solution. I have developed a function to insert a button into an
> edit control. The effect of this is very similar to the drop-down button in
> a combo box. Yes, we have a new additional button, but it's part of the
> edit control now.
>
> When the new inserted button is clicked, the Variable List appears. Of
> course, you can continue to use CTRL-Right Mouse.

Not to be difficult<g>, but two points:

1) Whenever I see the "...", I expect a file dialog - not a variable
lookup<g>.

2) I take it that if you use this approach AND there is a place where an
ACTUAL file dialog makes sense, that there will be a separate button for
the file dialog?


Food for thought...

:-)

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles,

> 2) I take it that if you use this approach AND there is a place where an
> ACTUAL file dialog makes sense, that there will be a separate button for
> the file dialog?

The good thing is that I do not have to "redesign" any dialog. What I do is
I just insert a button into an the existing edit control. That button is
part of the control, similar to the drop-down button in a combo box.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> The good thing is that I do not have to "redesign" any dialog. What I do is
> I just insert a button into an the existing edit control. That button is
> part of the control, similar to the drop-down button in a combo box.

That IS cool (and a relief to you I am sure since SB has a lot of real
estate<g>)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles,

> 1) Whenever I see the "...", I expect a file dialog - not a variable
> lookup<g>.

Yes, good point. But Microsoft also uses the "..." in Visual Studio to open
non-file-selection dialogs, so... :-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> Yes, good point. But Microsoft also uses the "..." in Visual Studio to open
> non-file-selection dialogs, so... :-)

Ah - so we can put you down as a "contributor" to Clarion folk continually
drifting over towards Visual Studio then...

<VBG>

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

>> Yes, good point. But Microsoft also uses the "..." in Visual Studio to
>> open
>> non-file-selection dialogs, so... :-)
>
> Ah - so we can put you down as a "contributor" to Clarion folk continually
> drifting over towards Visual Studio then...
>
> <VBG>

<VBG> ;-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Looks good - that's dope

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

[NewsArchive]

"I left my heart..... in Gatlinburg....."

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

You'd probably have to call it Gatlinburgy to make it work. Or
Gatlinburgo. Whichever.

Jeff Slarve

[NewsArchive]

Jeff,

> You'd probably have to call it Gatlinburgy to make it work. Or
> Gatlinburgo. Whichever.

Nah! Just do a Tennessee Waltz on the "R" and you're good to go!

Gatlinburrg <g>

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Reports....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Free Review: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/