If Clarion for 7.2?

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Is this available yet?!<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Guess you didn't get the secret beta invitation at the latest ETC???

Jane Fleming

[NewsArchive]

Jane,

> Guess you didn't get the secret beta invitation at the latest ETC???

Sometimes you're just downright cruel... and I think you like it!<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Interesting that the pick list in the screen shot goes from C7.3 directly
to C8.0...

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
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[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Never mind. SV screwed up and used the same GUID as 7.1.

That's not a good thing... not good at all.

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

> Never mind. SV screwed up and used the same GUID as 7.1.
>
> That's not a good thing... not good at all.

(drum roll)

...and so without further ado we move directly to C7.3

How's that for a speedy release cycle?

:-)

Charles

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
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and Forms!"
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Version numbers are cheap <g>.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

> Version numbers are cheap <g>.

So's "gold" - only $700 a year<g>

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

> Never mind. SV screwed up and used the same GUID as 7.1.
>
> That's not a good thing... not good at all.

We'll make the new SB72 maintenance build to support Clarion 7.2 available
later today. Support for C72 was added two weeks ago, but I wanted to test
it with the Gold version to make sure it really works. The same GUID is not
a problem for SB (and from the theoretical point of view, not required
because it's not a major update).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>
> Is this available yet?!<g>
>

Yes <g>. The server is ready to send subscription notifications.

Web Update should report "Update available" within the next few hours.

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

_You_ are _the_ *best*

Merci

> Lee,

>>
>> Is this available yet?!<g>
>>

> Yes <g>. The server is ready to send subscription notifications.

> Web Update should report "Update available" within the next few hours.

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
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with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> We'll make the new SB72 maintenance build to support Clarion 7.2 available
> later today. Support for C72 was added two weeks ago, but I wanted to test
> it with the Gold version to make sure it really works. The same GUID is not
> a problem for SB (and from the theoretical point of view, not required
> because it's not a major update).

I'll trust what you're saying!<g> It just seems odd that there was a
change between 7.0 and 7.1 and not one between 7.1 and 7.2. The other
bit is I no longer have a "remove software" listing for 7.1.

Can I assume (dangerous, I know) that %_SB_TMP% will contain the
correct path for 7.2 when looking for 7.2 and for 7.1 when looking for
7.1?

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

> I'll trust what you're saying!<g> It just seems odd that there was a
> change between 7.0 and 7.1 and not one between 7.1 and 7.2. The other
> bit is I no longer have a "remove software" listing for 7.1.

From 7.0 to 7.1 it was handled suboptimal (whatever that means because in
fact, the vendor can decide when it's time to change the Product GUID).
From 7.1 to 7.2 it's done correctly <g>

> Can I assume (dangerous, I know) that %_SB_TMP% will contain the
> correct path for 7.2 when looking for 7.2 and for 7.1 when looking for
> 7.1?

C71 and C72 can't co-exist on the same machine. But yes, the variable
%_SB_TMP% returns the full path and exe name of the Clarion 7.1 IDE (if
installed and detected) and the full path and exe name of Clarion 7.2 (if
installed).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> C71 and C72 can't co-exist on the same machine.

That's worrisome, at best, since they are on mine.

There was no warning or failure to install when I installed 7.2!

> %_SB_TMP% returns the full path and exe name of the Clarion 7.1 IDE (if
> installed and detected) and the full path and exe name of Clarion 7.2 (if
> installed).

But not when both exist on the same machine? That's a serious pain.

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

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[NewsArchive]

> > %_SB_TMP% returns the full path and exe name of the Clarion 7.1 IDE (if
> > installed and detected) and the full path and exe name of Clarion 7.2 (if
> > installed).

But if both are installed the ONLY path I can gather is for 7.2?

If that's correct then I'll be issuing a formal complaint to SV for
not using their heads.

My libraries are different depending on 7.1 or 7.2 which makes
building and supporting installs a major headache now.

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>
> But if both are installed the ONLY path I can gather is for 7.2?
>

Yes, because the Clarion 7 (deployment) design/strategy does not support
multiple instances on the same machine. If you install C72 over C71 then in
fact, you are doing some kind of "update" and you overwrite all existing
registry and shortcut entries.

> My libraries are different depending on 7.1 or 7.2 which makes
> building and supporting installs a major headache now.

You need the new SetupBuilder build to handle this, the previous
non-C72-aware SetupBuilder releases can't do it.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> Yes, because the Clarion 7 (deployment) design/strategy does not support
> multiple instances on the same machine.

Then the strategy is too limited, especially for a dot release.

I have multiple builds of 7.1 and will, most likely, have multiple
builds of 7.2.

I have absolutely NO problem with the last 7.1 installed being the de
facto path for 7.1. But when developers will have multiples on their
system not being able to discern a path for 7.1 and 7.2 is not good.

> You need the new SetupBuilder build to handle this, the previous
> non-C72-aware SetupBuilder releases can't do it.

The paths will not be different, that's the weakness here. Apparently
I'm not making myself understood<g>, which is very likely since I'm
rapidly approaching the miffed state I was in yesterday with broken
templates that are still broken - but there will be (are) developers
with BOTH versions on their systems.

Regardless of what's right or wrong not having a way to see both is a
major pain. It just seems shortsighted but, having no alternative,
I'll deal with it as best I can.

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>> You need the new SetupBuilder build to handle this, the previous
>> non-C72-aware SetupBuilder releases can't do it.
>
> The paths will not be different, that's the weakness here. Apparently
> I'm not making myself understood<g>, which is very likely since I'm
> rapidly approaching the miffed state I was in yesterday with broken
> templates that are still broken - but there will be (are) developers
> with BOTH versions on their systems.

Of course, I know what you are talking about. But in fact, after installing
C72 over C71, the system "forgot" that there is a C71 <g>. Yes, it is still
there (and perhaps it's even usable), but for Windows (registry, shortcuts,
etc.) it's not available any longer. The same happens if you install C71
over C72.

That's why it is important to use the new SB72 Build 2978 if you have to
ship different LIBs for C71 and C72. The new build can detect C70, C71 and
C72 and install the appropriate LIB files. All pre-C72 SetupBuilder builds
would detect C72 as C71 and install the wrong version.

> Regardless of what's right or wrong not having a way to see both is a
> major pain. It just seems shortsighted but, having no alternative,
> I'll deal with it as best I can.

As it is now, there is absolutely no way to "auto-detect" the lost
version(s).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friederich,

Knowing all the 3rdParty sellers would have this exact pb to allow
their clients to download verion 7/7.1/7.2 templates, why did SV NOT
simply change all paths guid's and shortcuts ?

Would have solved all no ?

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
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with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> Knowing all the 3rdParty sellers would have this exact pb to allow their
> clients to download verion 7/7.1/7.2 templates, why did SV NOT simply
> change all paths guid's and shortcuts ?
>
> Would have solved all no ?

All 3rd-party vendors can detect the installed Clarion 7.x version and
deploy the appropriate LIBs, templates, etc. from the same setup.exe. No
problem. But by design, if you "install" a new Clarion 7, you
upgrade/downgrade your system to the newly installed version.

I don't know the internals of the Clarion 7 system so I have no idea if it
would be enough to only change all paths, guids, and shortcuts. IIRC,
Visual Studio does also not allow to install different releases of the same
version. The same is true for SetupBuilder.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Not all, but enough.

> Friederich,
>
> Knowing all the 3rdParty sellers would have this exact pb to allow their clients
> to download verion 7/7.1/7.2 templates, why did SV NOT simply change all paths
> guid's and shortcuts ?
>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> C72 over C71, the system "forgot" that there is a C71 <g>.

More like it had a lobotomy!<g>

> (and perhaps it's even usable)

I have 7.0, all flavors of 7.1 as well as 7.2 all installed separately
and working side by side - even at the same time!<g>

> The same happens if you install C71 over C72.

That's the point, they aren't installed over each other; they're
installed beside each other.

> That's why it is important to use the new SB72 Build 2978 if you have to
> ship different LIBs for C71 and C72.

The issue, from my point of view, is trying to prevent a 7.1 install
from being installed in the 7.2 folder and the other way round. I
provide separate installs for builds where entry points have changed.

Right now using the older SB is working since it's returning the 7.2
path even though it's looking for 7.1 - my head hurts.

I would have preferred<g> not having to provide tech support for
mismatched libraries. But then with RPM currently not deliverable it's
rapidly becoming a moot point.

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

As an addition to my reply moments ago...

Please don't think I'm pointing my finger at you or SB... from my
point of view it's a weakness in concept by SV... just wanted you to
be aware of that!<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>> C71 and C72 can't co-exist on the same machine.
>
> That's worrisome, at best, since they are on mine.
>
> There was no warning or failure to install when I installed 7.2!
>
>> %_SB_TMP% returns the full path and exe name of the Clarion 7.1 IDE (if
>> installed and detected) and the full path and exe name of Clarion 7.2 (if
>> installed).
>
> But not when both exist on the same machine? That's a serious pain.

I think Clarion 7 was not designed in such a way that several different
versions can coexist on the same machine. Otherwise, there would be unique
Product GUIDs, unique registry entries, etc.

Yes, I am sure you can install different versions but the last version will
always overwrite all existing entries. For example, if you had C71
installed and install C72, then you do not have entries for C71 any longer.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

>C71 and C72 can't co-exist on the same machine.

In that case it sure seems like changing the GUID between C70 and C71 was
actually _optimal_. Clearly many people maintain multiple clarion builds on the
same machine for all kinds of reasons, some of them good ones. <g>

Perhaps you can expand on why it was suboptimal? Anything that imposes the
co-existence limitation you are referring to seems like a step backwards.

Confused,
Kelly E Major

[NewsArchive]

Kelly,

>>C71 and C72 can't co-exist on the same machine.
>
> In that case it sure seems like changing the GUID between C70 and C71 was
> actually _optimal_. Clearly many people maintain multiple clarion builds
> on the same machine for all kinds of reasons, some of them good ones. <g>
>
> Perhaps you can expand on why it was suboptimal? Anything that imposes
> the co-existence limitation you are referring to seems like a step
> backwards.

Because the Clarion 7 product does not support (by design) "multiple"
installations. All Clarion 7 versions share the very same registry entries.
And the very same shortcuts. The last Clarion 7.x install will always
overwrite all existing registry and shortcut entries. A new Product GUID
would not help here.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

I thought the design was that you can use the newest version of C7.x to
compile in any prior version. I don't think you can presently use C7.2 to
compile stuff in 7.1 or 7.0 even though you can compile in C6.3 mode. That
has to be a screw-up, not an intentional design thing. I would love to use
C7.2 to compile in 7.1 mode until the C7.2 3rd party products are ready.
--
Regards,
Abe Jimenez
Clarion 7.1.7118 EE
Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Thanks for such a prompt response.

Is 2943 the one to support C7.2? If so, in the wizard dialog I don't get the
C7.2 option. Should I be waiting for another version?

--
Geoff (Capesoft)

www.capesoft.com
The Capesoft inside scoop: http://twitter.com/geoffthomson

[NewsArchive]

Hi Geoff,

> Thanks for such a prompt response.
>
> Is 2943 the one to support C7.2? If so, in the wizard dialog I don't get
> the C7.2 option. Should I be waiting for another version?

No, the new version is #2978 and will be available within the next 4-8
hours. We are in the process of making the server ready to distribute the
new SB72.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

OK - thanks

--
Geoff (Capesoft)

www.capesoft.com
The Capesoft inside scoop: http://twitter.com/geoffthomson

[NewsArchive]

Hi Kelly,

> In that case it sure seems like changing the GUID between C70 and C71 was
> actually _optimal_. Clearly many people maintain multiple clarion builds on the
> same machine for all kinds of reasons, some of them good ones. <g>
>
> Perhaps you can expand on why it was suboptimal? Anything that imposes the
> co-existence limitation you are referring to seems like a step backwards.

Personally I don't think this should be supported. I keep multiple builds
of C6 and older, but I will only keep one build of C7.x on my machine. I
see absolutely no reason to be using old versions of C7.

The way the IDE is designed even if you can install the IDE into multiple
different folders, you have shared folders that keep track of all the IDE
settings. IMO you are creating a compatibility nightmare by installing
multiple versions of it on the same machine. I simply wouldn't do it. I
would use virtual machines if I had to, but keep one VM for each C7 build
that I needed to maintain.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Alta LLC
Port Angeles, Washington
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