Clarion users only: Deployment Strategy for Clarion 7.3+

[NewsArchive]

Clarion Users Only:

I have chatted with Robert Z. to discuss the deployment strategy for future
C7.x versions. It was expected that users would only have a single version
of Clarion 7.x installed, but from the IDEs point-of-view, it would be no
problem to have multiple installs too. All C7.x versions will share the
same settings, and that is by design and will not change. But there should
be no negative side effects with sharing the same configuration information
from different IDE versions and locations.

After giving it some thoughts, I plan to suggest the following modified
deployment strategy for the next Clarion 7 version releases:

1.) Treat every "dot version" update (7.3, 7.4, etc.) as a major upgrade and
have an unique Product GUID to support multiple 7.x installs

2.) Default to an unique dot version installation directory (e.g.
"C:\Program Files\SoftVelocity\Clarion73")

3.) Create an unique Shortcut folder name so shortcuts point to the correct
dot version (e.g. Start -> All Programs -> Clarion 7.3")

4.) Support "smart-rollback" so you can rollback (after an update) to
previous builds of the same dot version without losing shortcuts or
uninstall information. The same uninstall application can rollback to the
previous version(s) or completely remove the Clarion dot version

As a result, Clarion 7.2 and all new dot versions (Clarion 7.3, Clarion 7.4,
etc.) can truly coexist on the same machine. 3rd-party products can detect
the correct version even if multiple instances are installed, shortcuts
point to the correct locations, updates and rollbacks of the same dot
version are possible (beginning with C7.3).

This should solve all issues. If you have any further Clarion deployment
strategy thoughts, please let me know.

Friedrich

Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Friedrich,
I have the C71 installed in a "Clarion7" dir and many programs that backup
and sincronize data to that dir.
I´ve installed C72 to a "Clarion72" dir to test it.
Now, can I rename the "Clarion7" dir to "Clarion71" and the "Clarion72" to
"Clarion7" without problem?
Thanks
Alberto

[NewsArchive]

Hi Alberto,

> Thanks Friedrich,
> I have the C71 installed in a "Clarion7" dir and many programs that backup
> and sincronize data to that dir.
> I´ve installed C72 to a "Clarion72" dir to test it.
> Now, can I rename the "Clarion7" dir to "Clarion71" and the "Clarion72" to
> "Clarion7" without problem?

If you have installed C72 to upgrade your existing C71 and you rename the
folders, then the IDE itself "should" work fine. But if you try to use
3rd-party installers that make use of C72-aware Clarion auto-detection, this
will fail (because your C72 installation points to the "Clarion72" folder).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Friedrich but no, I´ve installed C72 as a new installation in a
Clarion72 dir.
THen I have:
C71 installed in Clarion7
C72 installed in Clarion72
Can I rename the folders to convert the Clarion72 to Clarion7?
Must I change any registry entry?
Thanks
Alberto

[NewsArchive]

Alberto,

> Thanks Friedrich but no, I´ve installed C72 as a new installation in a
> Clarion72 dir.
> THen I have:
> C71 installed in Clarion7
> C72 installed in Clarion72
> Can I rename the folders to convert the Clarion72 to Clarion7?
> Must I change any registry entry?

Please note that it was expected that users would only have a single version
of Clarion 7.x installed. In other words, by design, you can have only one
installation instance. If you had an existing C71 installation and you
installed C72 (to a different folder), then yes, it was an "update". So you
can't simply rename the folders. Registry changes would be required (not
recommended!).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Excellent news !

Just one question as you are in a position (not to answer) but to get
one :
why not also put all pref files under the root dir ?

in pref files I find not only serial and settings BUT also all temp xml
for EACH solution and app opened

which means that by essence IF you install all prefs in the same folder
imagine :
open 7.1 and open solution XXX
open 7.2 and FIND there available solution XXX BUT IT IS a 7.1 one and
CAN create pbs


I know this will be hard to get SV to change but SO much better for all
aspects of OUR lives

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works
with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

> Just one question as you are in a position (not to answer) but to get one
> :
> why not also put all pref files under the root dir ?

I forgot to mention in my original post that there are only plans to make
modifications to the "deployment strategy". There are no plans that I know
of to make modifications to the Clarion system itself to deal with different
installation instances and locations.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I had understood that of course from reading it but maybe it is time
someone with more weigth than we all have points out this real pb to SV
in the light of all the revamping they will be doing

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works
with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

> All C7.x versions will share the
>same settings, and that is by design and will not change.

I appreciate that this is a problem not of your making, but rather a policy
decision by SoftVelocity.
But it really does make life difficult.
Not only do ALL Clarion 7 versions you may have installed share the same
preferences folder.
But also ALL Clarion.NET version also use the same settings.

A lot of the time when unexplained problems occur in the IDE the first thing
that is suggested by SoftVelocity is to delete the %AppData% folders.

Doing this you lose all your carefully crafted preferences, and who knows
whether you can remember what you changed, and what you changed it too.
Add in Clarion 7 and Clarion.NET and you can see the difficulty.

Again, sorry for 'bending your ear' but if you could discuss this with
SoftVelocity I'm sure a lot of developers would appreciate it.

Many thanks for all your good work.

Graham

[NewsArchive]

Hi JP,

On 9 Jun 2010 07:35:06 -0400, JP Gutsatz [7.2. 7232] wrote:

> Just one question as you are in a position (not to answer) but to get
> one :
> why not also put all pref files under the root dir ?
>
> in pref files I find not only serial and settings BUT also all temp xml
> for EACH solution and app opened

I'm not sure I'd want it in the root dir, but perhaps the IDE could pick up
the install folder name (i.e. Clarion7, Clarion72, Clarion74 and use that in
the %appdata% folder for the settings. That way each INSTALLED version
would have its own. This could also resolve the issue between the
Clarion.NET and Clarion 7 IDEs sharing the settings and in particular the
MRU file list which IMO is counter productive.

I also agree with Graham that it is suggested way too much to just blankly
remove all the settings and let the IDE recreate them. You loose all your
settings for the IDEs and it's a pain in the behind.

Best regards,

--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Alta LLC
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com - www.altawebworks.com

Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

yes this is another GOOD way of doing things

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
Jean-Pierre GUTSATZ
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com Certified by Microsoft : "Works with Vista" & "Works
with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> After giving it some thoughts, I plan to suggest the following modified
> deployment strategy for the next Clarion 7 version releases:

THANK YOU!

I knew if I moaned and groaned enough.... <g>

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Reports....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Free Review: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/

[NewsArchive]

Quick question: is there an interest in a "Clarion 7 Quick-Switch"
application (freeware)?

Let us assume, you have C71 and C72 installed in different folders on the
same machine. After installing C72, you can't auto-detect and install C71
templates any longer nor is it possible to start C71 or C71 service tools
from the shortcuts.

In theory, "Clarion 7 Quick-Switch" (a tool developed with SetupBuilder) can
auto-detect C71 and C72 and a radio button selection allows you to
enable/disable support for C71/C72.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

To be honest - no interest. I just have one major version of Clarion installed
(C6 will soon be retired and gone so I'm not counting that). As a follow-up
thought, I don't see any value having multiple versions of C7 installed, even
assuming a vendor's viewpoint. Realistically, is anyone really doing serious work
with obsolete C7 versions? I can understand holding an older copy for a few weeks
to a month for "just in case" reasons and in archive format only. Or at least
different VMs.

Hey! You asked <g>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> nor is it possible to start C71 or C71 service tools
> from the shortcuts.

You kind of lost me on that one.<g> (see attached screen cap)

You are correct about the auto-detect, we've already covered that one
fairly well<g>, but I can run different versions since I have
shortcuts for each. Granted, I held onto them from build to build but
they do work as long as they exist. At least they appear to!

That said, there may be others that could find it useful.

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Reports....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Free Review: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/

[NewsArchive]

hi friedrich,

> Quick question: is there an interest in a "Clarion 7 Quick-Switch"
> application (freeware)?

yes!

gennadi

[NewsArchive]

agree

Steven Sitas

[NewsArchive]

Russ,

>
> Hey! You asked <g>
>

Thanks for the feedback (and the good news <g>). I have 46 votes against
the tool and only 4 votes in favor. Back to the real development work
now... <g>

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

NEW FEATURE: Will now make coffee, real coffee. No one likes decaf.

;-)

> Back to the real development work
> now... <g>
>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

> NEW FEATURE: Will now make coffee, real coffee. No one likes decaf.
>
> ;-)

<G> :)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>> nor is it possible to start C71 or C71 service tools
>> from the shortcuts.
>
> You kind of lost me on that one.<g> (see attached screen cap)
>
> You are correct about the auto-detect, we've already covered that one
> fairly well<g>, but I can run different versions since I have
> shortcuts for each. Granted, I held onto them from build to build but
> they do work as long as they exist. At least they appear to!
>
> That said, there may be others that could find it useful.

:)

57 votes against the tool now and only 5 votes in favor (95% of the feedback
is from 3rd-party vendors). So most 3rd-parties can live with it as it is
now. In C73, there will be another "deployment strategy" and the
auto-detection issue will be history.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> 57 votes against the tool now and only 5 votes in favor (95% of the feedback
> is from 3rd-party vendors). So most 3rd-parties can live with it as it is
> now. In C73, there will be another "deployment strategy" and the
> auto-detection issue will be history.

If you want to write something that would be useful to the 3rd party
then how about a 7.2 install validator to check ClarionProperties.xml
for the proper CWVersion value... I know _I_ could use one!<g>

I've run across several others where the version in that file was set
to 7100 instead of 7200 and it's causing problems.

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Reports....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Free Review: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Maybe something like the attached.

If anyone sees a problem with this script please let me know.

--
Lee White

Enroll Today at http://CWaddons.com

Reports....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Free Review: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

COOL IDEA!!!!!

Friedrich