Are these options mutually exclusive?

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Clarion Environment Detection Dialog Properties

"Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version root directory"
"Disable Next button if no Supported Clarion Version detected"

Are those mutually exclusive options? In other words if the user
selects a path but the "Disable Next" option is also checked will the
"Next" button ever be enabled?

This goes back to the failure to detect 7.2. Should the "Disable Next
button" option be unchecked so the install can continue or should SB
enable the button once a path is selected?

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Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Lee,

> Clarion Environment Detection Dialog Properties
>
> "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version root directory"
> "Disable Next button if no Supported Clarion Version detected"
>
> Are those mutually exclusive options? In other words if the user
> selects a path but the "Disable Next" option is also checked will the
> "Next" button ever be enabled?
>
> This goes back to the failure to detect 7.2. Should the "Disable Next
> button" option be unchecked so the install can continue or should SB
> enable the button once a path is selected?

The "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version root directory"
feature does not support C7.0, C7.1 or C7.2! I see that this is not
documented :-( Done now.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

I have a feeling I'm going to feel really silly soon but here goes :)...

Is there some reason you don't want to be able to let the user search for all
supported Clarion version root directories? I mean including C7.x?

Regards,
Kelly E Major

[NewsArchive]

Hi Kelly,

>
> I have a feeling I'm going to feel really silly soon but here goes :)...
>

<G>

> Is there some reason you don't want to be able to let the user search for
> all supported Clarion version root directories? I mean including C7.x?

The Clarion detection method changed and the "Allow user to search for
Supported Clarion Version root directory" method was not compatible with the
new C7 method. No 3rd-party asked for an updated version, so... <g>.
Adding new functionality is a priority-driven processes. If we receive
multiple requests for the same feature then chances are that it might get a
higher development priority. We don't want to waste development resources
on features that nobody is interested in <g>

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

BTW, we discussed this with some major 3rd-party vendors in December 2008
and they had no interest in an updated version.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

OK, fine. In that case I'd like to request network LAN auto-updating again.

I'm not really interested in voting to make those 3rd party guys happy anyway.

<VBG>

- Kelly

[NewsArchive]

Hi Kelly,

> OK, fine. In that case I'd like to request network LAN auto-updating
> again.
>
> I'm not really interested in voting to make those 3rd party guys happy
> anyway.
>
> <VBG>

Only one "LAN auto-updating" vote per person, please <vbg> ;-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

Can I add my vote for Auto Lan Update as well.

Regards

Johan de Klerk

[NewsArchive]

Hi Johan,

>
> Can I add my vote for Auto Lan Update as well.
>

Sure :) Thanks for the vote!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

I didn't see anything about that in the EULA. <G>

- Kelly

[NewsArchive]

>
> I didn't see anything about that in the EULA. <G>
>

<VBG> ;-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> The "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version root directory"
> feature does not support C7.0, C7.1 or C7.2!

Guess it's time to rewrite a truck load of installs. It's a shame this
isn't available as an option. It kind of negates the changes made to
overcome the detection failure that's haunting me right now.

I have no knowledge of which third parties were involved in making
this decision but it was NOT a good one. So much for my weekend.

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

>> The "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version root directory"
>> feature does not support C7.0, C7.1 or C7.2!
>
> Guess it's time to rewrite a truck load of installs. It's a shame this
> isn't available as an option. It kind of negates the changes made to
> overcome the detection failure that's haunting me right now.
>
> I have no knowledge of which third parties were involved in making
> this decision but it was NOT a good one. So much for my weekend.

That feature "stopped" working with the release of the new Clarion 7
registration method one day before Christmas on December 23, 2008. Several
3rd-parties were involved in this process and (IIRC) most (99%) of the
3rd-parties downloaded and used the C7-enabled SetupBuilder 6. There was
ZERO interest in an updated "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion
Version root directory" method.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

BTW, I'll check if it is possible to make it work with C7.x. The problem is
that we already did final regression testing on the new maintenance build.
But the C7 compatible "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version
root directory" method would require a complete new algorithm.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> BTW, I'll check if it is possible to make it work with C7.x. The problem is
> that we already did final regression testing on the new maintenance build.
> But the C7 compatible "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version
> root directory" method would require a complete new algorithm.

Don't worry about it... I'm not going to be the one responsible for
breaking anything!!<g>

If it comes down to it I'll rewrite the necessary scripts to use the
approach I've used since you helped me figure out how, using %_SB_TMP%
following the "If System does have Clarion" dialog. Which, by the way,
is greatly appreciated.

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Friedrich

> There was ZERO interest in an updated "Allow user to search for Supported
> Clarion Version root directory" method.

Let's say I install C7 to C:\Clarion7, then my PC dies and I get a new one.
I move the \Clarion7 folder to the new PC. AFAIK C7 will work fine, but I
won't be able to install new accessories.

Also: For many reasons, some developers keep multiple C7 installations. (In
my case I need a "fully loaded" installation for my own development and a
"plain" installation for template testing and work I share with others).
With the current status of SB, I could only install accessories to one of
the C7 installations. (Probably the last one installed I guess).

These scenarios are some where the SB option "Allow user..." for C7 would
come in handy.

If it's too much work to implement it SB, Is there a way to change something
(registry?) to let SB find the C7 folder?

Maybe all what is needed is a simple script like your C6Fix.

Carlos Gutierrez

[NewsArchive]

Carlos,

> These scenarios are some where the SB option "Allow user..." for C7 would
> come in handy.

It would indeed!<g>

For my installs I don't use the auto-detection dialog. I test for the
proper version of Clarion which fills %_SB_TMP% and then display a
folder selection dialog like the one attached.

The problem I've run into now, however, is not an install I wrote and
it relies on the detection which is failing. I've not yet been able to
figure out WHY it's failing, but for whatever reason - it is.

> Is there a way to change something
> (registry?) to let SB find the C7 folder?

From my tests, yes, but be careful and reset it later. Edit this key
with the path in "InstallLocation":

> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Uninstall\{479A07C0-EF05-11DE-6DF1-18371B021649}

And if you break something... dial 911!<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Carlos,

> Also: For many reasons, some developers keep multiple C7 installations.
> (In my case I need a "fully loaded" installation for my own development
> and a "plain" installation for template testing and work I share with
> others). With the current status of SB, I could only install accessories
> to one of the C7 installations. (Probably the last one installed I guess).

Please note that this has nothing to do with SetupBuilder! The current
deployment strategy for Clarion 7 is NOT multiple-instance based. It was
expected that users would only have a single version of 7.x installed. All
versions share the same configuration settings, shortcuts, etc. I have seen
Clarion 7 installations that were completely broken (and still worked, but
not as expected) because the user had several versions installed and
manipulated the registry and the uninstall.

IMO, it's not a good idea to install multiple instances of the current C7
and it should not be allowed at all.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

I have added support for C70, C71 and C72 to the "Allow user to search for
Supported Clarion Version root directory" option.

But I will add a "Warning: Use at your own risk" note to the manual <g>

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

BTW, see attached screenshot.

Clarion 7.2 is installed in E:\test\1 and the registry entries are corrupt
(or point to a wrong folder). The "Allow user to search for Supported
Clarion Version root directory" option lets you select the C7 installation
folder (E:\test\1 in this case) and you can continue (even with a corrupt
environment installation).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Or in this scenario: the registry is corrupt and Clarion 7.1 is installed in
F:\Clarion\Clarion71. The "Allow user to search for Supported
Clarion Version root directory" option lets you detect C71 and install
specific files.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

Quick info: even the new C7-aware "Allow user to search for Supported
Clarion Version root directory" option" would not help in this 7.3.0.7280
nightmare scenario because it is a Clarion 7.2 version wrongly labeled as
Clarion 7.3.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> Quick info: even the new C7-aware "Allow user to search for Supported
> Clarion Version root directory" option" would not help in this 7.3.0.7280
> nightmare scenario because it is a Clarion 7.2 version wrongly labeled as
> Clarion 7.3.

Yep, 7.3 PE.

>> From: Mike Burris
>> Newsgroups: sv.clarion.clarion7
>> Subject: Re: Update is out
>> Date: 30 Jun 2010 18:49:05 -0400
>>
>> And when you start it, it says: Program Name: Clarion 7.3

What I was really hoping for was an "Allow user to select a folder and
don't worry whether it's a Supported Clarion Version!"<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Lee,

> What I was really hoping for was an "Allow user to select a folder and
> don't worry whether it's a Supported Clarion Version!"<g>

In other words, you do not need Clarion detection at all <g>

What if you install Clarion specific LIB files (e.g. for Clarion 7.1) and
the user selects his Clarion 7.2 install folder and so nothing works as
expected after that, then this would be okay <g>. This would result in a
support nightmare.

"Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version root directory" lets
your user select a specific Clarion version. But if the version is
"unknown" (Clarion 7.3 is not really available yet <g>) then it's impossible
to handle this scenario.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> What if you install Clarion specific LIB files (e.g. for Clarion 7.1) and
> the user selects his Clarion 7.2 install folder and so nothing works as
> expected after that, then this would be okay <g>. This would result in a
> support nightmare.

I've lived there for MANY years so it's not as much of a nightmare as
it used to be!<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>> What if you install Clarion specific LIB files (e.g. for Clarion 7.1) and
>> the user selects his Clarion 7.2 install folder and so nothing works as
>> expected after that, then this would be okay <g>. This would result in a
>> support nightmare.
>
> I've lived there for MANY years so it's not as much of a nightmare as
> it used to be!<g>

<G> :)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

You are just used to it <g>

>
> I've lived there for MANY years so it's not as much of a nightmare as
> it used to be!<g>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Clarion developers: www.radfusion.com/devs.htm

[NewsArchive]

Russ,

> You are just used to it <g>

Yep!

Back then I was not an unwise developer, now I am, unwise that is.<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

> This would result in a
>support nightmare.


Unlike the current support dream<g>

As a user, I wouldn't mind a button that allowed me to choose the
destination. You can put all kinds of warnings if you like.

The end user will either be too smart or not smart enough, but at
least they will be able to install the software.

FWIW, I often "test" 3rd party installs by giving a phoney destination
so that I can see exactly which files get installed before I do the
"real" install.


Jeff Slarve

[NewsArchive]

Jeff,

> FWIW, I often "test" 3rd party installs by giving a phoney destination
> so that I can see exactly which files get installed before I do the
> "real" install.

That's still the way I do it. I use SB to retrieve the correct path
and then open a dialog with that value in place but with an option to
select a different path.

More often than not it gets installed correctly - so far!<g>

--
Lee White

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[NewsArchive]

Jeff,

>> This would result in a support nightmare.
>
>
> Unlike the current support dream<g>

<G>

> As a user, I wouldn't mind a button that allowed me to choose the
> destination. You can put all kinds of warnings if you like.
>
> The end user will either be too smart or not smart enough, but at
> least they will be able to install the software.
>
> FWIW, I often "test" 3rd party installs by giving a phoney destination
> so that I can see exactly which files get installed before I do the
> "real" install.

Let us assume, your install supports:

Clarion 6.3
Clarion 7.0
Clarion 7.1
Clarion 7.2

If no Clarion version was auto-detected (because the user was smart enough
to damage his registry with a Registry Optimizer, or moved Clarion versions
from machine A to B, renamed folders, etc.) then "Allow user to search for
Supported Clarion Version root directory" lets your user select a Clarion
installation folder. But we still need a mechanism to detect which Clarion
version this really is. Otherwise, it would not be possible to install
Clarion specific files, register templates, etc. If the user selects a
valid Clarion 6.3 folder then he can continue. But if he selects a Clarion
5 version, he can't install.

Or if your product only supports Clarion 7.2, then it should not be allowed
to select Clarion 5 or Clarion 6 (a completely different deployment
strategy). The C7-aware "Allow user to search for Supported Clarion Version
root directory" option can handle this. But it can not detect versions that
are not available yet -- and Clarion 7.3 is such a version <g>.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Okay.

But this is just assuming that people know what they want.

Obviously, compiled libraries should only go with their respective
hosts, but what if I purchase your stuff and only want to SEE what the
C7 flavor of this stuff looks like?

Even if I don't have C7.

Or I want to SEE what is different between the C5 version and the
current one is?

I'm just saying.

It hasn't affected me yet, but I could see how it could. Maybe I'm
more hands-on than some.


>
>Or if your product only supports Clarion 7.2, then it should not be allowed
>to select Clarion 5 or Clarion 6 (a completely different deployment
>strategy).

Jeff Slarve