3rd Party Install for C6 and C7

[NewsArchive]

Isn't it possible, especially with SetupBuilder to have the option of
installing
BOTH C6 and C7 at the same time, instead of having to install everything
twice?

I just did an install that involved 5 templates and I had to install 10
times

??
--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

Hi Dan,

> Isn't it possible, especially with SetupBuilder to have the option of
> installing BOTH C6 and C7 at the same time, instead of having to
> install everything twice?
>
> I just did an install that involved 5 templates and I had to install
> 10 times

Yes, from the technical point-of-view, it is possible and no problem. We
published an experimental source code demo for Clarion 7.0 two years ago.
But I don't think that any 3rd-party developer is using this method.

See "Multiple Version Clarion Install.sb7" demo in the Examples package.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I thought it would be easy in SB

Thanks

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

It was challenging enough to get my installers to work for one version
at a time. I would relish making it work for multiples.

Remember that you're installing the same set of files twice. This
would require a big script loop that executes conditionally for each
Clarion version that was selected. Also, the Clarion version
selection support provided by SB lets the person installing choose a
single version, rather than clicking one or more with checkboxes, so
this would require work as well.

Scripts are complex beasts. In a sense they are "programs", but they
have a bunch of "magic" stuff stuck in nooks and crannies that make
the whole process much more esoteric and obtuse.

Mike Hanson
www.boxsoft.net

[NewsArchive]

As Fredrich said...

The DMC demo RT is a full dual installer .... and works great (at least
no one came to complain) <g>

But it needs work ....

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Cool, maybe the others will take note

Dn

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mike

I actually understand SB script better than I do Clarion <g>
BTW, in my installs, I have conditional scripting depending on Full or
lite version.
Of course it probably is not be as complicated as installing 3rd party
stuff.

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

it is the same Dan .... an IF then ELSE (well a few of those) ....

but again it requires work to be done
It also has a drawback which is the size of the installer as some files
are duplicated and if you ship a big number of large files then ....

it requires "thinking ahead" of what you install etc ....

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

JP
See my reply to Bruce concerning SIZE <g>

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich

I already see that nobody wants to do this <g>

How about this? Is there an ability within setupbuilder to go back to
the start screen after the finish button is Clicked?
So, I install C6 version and then when it is finished, I simply Check
Install C7 without have to reload the installer.
I have a sneaking suspicion the negativety is due to some kind of
shortcoming in Clarion DDE

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

..... so easy to do ...

a dual detection script
c6
c7

in script use a variabale to define which files are used
common files need to be doubled (yes a drawback for size but I am sure
this also could be avoided if I worked harder)
define the path for c6 and c7 for examples
(yes I did take a personal approach to this : c7 examples go under
root/accessory/examples/.... as NO one complained about this in c6 I do
not see why in c7 it should stuck under program files like ... well
..... shhh <g>)

define the program groups

ONE CLICK installer

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

JP

>(yes I did take a personal approach to this : c7 examples go under
root/accessory/examples/.... as NO one complained about this in c6 I do
not see why in c7 it should stuck under program files like ... well
...... shhh<g>)<

Good thing I read this quickly before you get Deleted<g>

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

note : I hesitated to name my sources then decided against it

after all the c7 beta group decided where it was supposed to go after
SV installed their 1998 demo apps in a separate installer available
from a seperate link in some emails

I did ask why when I joined but was told all was already decided so
decided it was no use fighting windmills : it seems sellers appreciate
being called "accessory" better than "3rdParty" and also prefer having
their demos hidden in linux like paths under program files

Choice being available I opted for ease for the clients and thus
avoided having an extra screen to ask where they want it installed....

I have lived with c6 for years, I had the (bad it seems) habit of
looking for my examples under either root/examples or
root/3rdParty/examples, I have the (bad it seems) habit of simply
copying that folder when I want to play with a demo app so as to be
able to revert to stock shipped in case I do something bad

I have too many bad habits

I need to learn to live with my time and to consider
C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Roaming\SoftVelocit y\Clarion
as easier to find than
c:\clarion7\....

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Roaming\SoftVelocit y\Clarion

Ridiculous <g>

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

Hi Dan,

For products with binaries (ie DLL's) this would likely make them quite
large.

Also C6 and C7 have vastly different directory layouts with different
example folders and so on.
So while it's possible to put them together it would cause some
complications, and th install itself would not
be particulalry intuitive. Unke the current "just click next" approach you'd
need to decide which
(either or both) to install into - you'd need to pick an examples folder for
C7 (but not C6), and so on.

Frankly I'm not sure at all that you'd actually gain anything that you don't
get just by running 2 separate installs.

cheers
Bruce

[NewsArchive]

> Frankly I'm not sure at all that you'd actually gain anything that you don't
> get just by running 2 separate installs.

Hmmm ... time to take a LONG bathroom break (or write a short novel) while
NetTalk 5 installs to both C7 and C6...

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms - Now with PNG support!
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Charles

Are you ridiculing me because I like to take loooong shits? <g>

Seriously, takes just as long to install twice you nut case <g>

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

> Are you ridiculing me because I like to take loooong shits? <g>

:-)


> Seriously, takes just as long to install twice you nut case <g>

Of course that assumes you want or need to install both (which could be set
with a checkbox of course).

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms - Now with PNG support!
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Bruce
>For products with binaries (ie DLL's) this would likely make them
quite large.<

Size only matters when having sex.

When I just update my CapeSoft stuff 22 current products, some times I
forget which ones I have installed for
both 6 and 7, dementia probably <g>
Even a loop back to the install screen would be better for me.

Oh Well, I have bigger fish to fry and so don't you all ....

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

>Oh Well, I have bigger fish to fry and so don't you all ....

That's the core of the matter. It took a good chunk of time to get my
installers working as-is (with the choice of Clarion version during
the installation flow). I'm not keen to revisit it.

Besides, if I changed this to do multiple versions of Clarion in a
single pass, I would merely save a bit of time for the guys who are
still using both C6 and C7, and that pool is dwindling.

Mike Hanson
www.boxsoft.net

[NewsArchive]

>still using both C6 and C7, and that pool is dwindling. <
Not by the looks of the C7 NG, looks like it is still practice and beta
testing. <g>
Plus, I bet there are many out there who ar simply using C6 in C7 to
test the new IDE,
but using C6 for production. Hell there are plenty still using C5.5 and
back.

Your safe for another year anyway, I just installed your stuff 3 days
ago. <g>

Dan

--

Dan Scott
C55 C6.3 C7.1 LEGACY
www.garagepartner.com

King of questions for Clarion Third Party

Plan A is always more effective when the device you are working on
understands that Plan B involves a larger hammer

[NewsArchive]

Hi Dan,

> I already see that nobody wants to do this <g>
>
> How about this? Is there an ability within setupbuilder to go back to the
> start screen after the finish button is Clicked?
> So, I install C6 version and then when it is finished, I simply Check
> Install C7 without have to reload the installer.
> I have a sneaking suspicion the negativety is due to some kind of
> shortcoming in Clarion DDE

In fact, there is no need to "go back" to the Welcome dialog or "reload" the
installer. From the technical point-of-view, the 3rd-party vendor can
install, say, templates for Clarion 5.5, Clarion 6 and Clarion 7 (or
whatever) at the same time from the very same setup.exe. But this requires
a deployment strategy that supports this scenario. IMO, it does not make
sense at all (and is "suboptimal") for most 3rd-party products to install
templates for different Clarion versions at the same time because this adds
an extra complexity layer. And it can result in a support nightmare for
3rd-party vendors if it comes to updates.

Support for different Clarion versions from the same setup.exe is another
story and can make sense for some (but not allo) 3rd-party products. For
example, our own "LSZip for Clarion" install image can install to Clarion
5.x, 6.x and 7.x from the very same setup.exe and it does not add any extra
overhead to the size of the installer. That means, there are no duplicate
files included in the setup.exe.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Then I have to learn how to not have duplicated files ;)

Teach me Monsieur please ?

Monday .... pony time now <bg>

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi JP,

> Then I have to learn how to not have duplicated files ;)
>
> Teach me Monsieur please ?
>
> Monday .... pony time now <bg>

;-)

The setup.exe for "LSZip for Clarion" sets the destination folder for the
template files dynamically at runtime. So there is no need to have
duplicate files.

I have attached a few screenshots. It creates different installations from
the same setup.exe for LSZip.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Fredrich,

What I do not understand is how the first line can install LSPUZIPX.DLL
to BOTH c6 and c7 dirs with only one line in script ?

To install and to c fold6er and to c fo7lder I need two lines with the
same file

Maybe because your installs is not version related as compiled outside
clarion ?


Let us say I have one template for c6 and for c7 and the user wants to
install to both clarion version in the same installer

I have two lines on that template file and I set them in an if version
here and if version there.

So that he ends up with TWO template files installed

All the rest I do the same (more or less)

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

You've described my situation exactly. I have one installer for all
versions of Clarion (well, 6.0+, but it used to support 5.5 too). The
user chooses the target version, and the installer places the files in
the right spots. If they're running multiple versions of Clarion,
then can just run that same installer multiple times. I think that's
a reasonable approach.

Mike Hanson
www.boxsoft.net

[NewsArchive]

> You've described my situation exactly. I have one installer for all
> versions of Clarion (well, 6.0+, but it used to support 5.5 too). The
> user chooses the target version, and the installer places the files in
> the right spots. If they're running multiple versions of Clarion,
> then can just run that same installer multiple times. I think that's
> a reasonable approach.

That's the way we do it.

We do have one extra bit that makes installs after the first a bit easier.

We store the USER, COMPANY and SN in the Registry and retrieve them if they
exist on subsequent installs to pre-populate those fields

That way the developer only has to provide/enter that data ONE time (as
long as they have not done a total uninstall - since that would naturally
remove the Registry entry).

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms - Now with PNG support!
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

The only thing I prompt them for is the password, but I kind of like
your idea of storing those in the registry. I may add that feature at
some point.

Mike Hanson
www.boxsoft.net

[NewsArchive]

Hi Dan,

I have two batch files. The first fetches the installs for C6 and C7
versions of all the accessories that I need. The second silent installs them
all.

For Clarion 6 installs you use the command line:

C:\Capesoft\Anyfontinstall.exe /V SELECTEDOPTIONS 0000000000 /V
OVERRIDEINSTALLDIR C:\Clarion6\3rdparty /V CLARIONVERRESULT 60 /V
SELECTEDFINALOPTIONS 0000000

For Clarion 7 installs use:

C:\Capesoft\AnyfontC7install.exe /V SELECTEDFINALOPTIONS 0000000000 /S


This allows me to install all the C6 and C7 accessories at the same time in
a few minutes automatically.

--
Regards,

Sean Cameron
CapeSoft
www.capesoft.com

Work Smarter, Not Harder!

[NewsArchive]

Hi JP,

I meant duplicate files with the same hash value. I think you are talking
about duplicate file "names" (and with different file contents). Of course,
if you have the same file name with different contents then you have to
include all these files in your setup.exe.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Bonjour Fredrich,

No I mean the same files needed to be installed twice in two different
folders

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Hi JP,

> No I mean the same files needed to be installed twice in two different
> folders

Because the folder is "dynamic" (variable based), you can install files to
completely different folders.

But I am talking about a "standard" Clarion 3rd-party installer that does
NOT install to different Clarion folders at the SAME time.

If you do all this at the SAME time (run setup.exe once and install the
templates simultaneously to 'Clarion 6', 'Clarion 7' and 'Clarion 8'), then
you need another deployment strategy to include the same file (with the same
binary contents) only once. For example, extract it to a temporary folder
first and then copy it to the correct folder for all supported Clarion
versions.

But again, I would not recommend this way because it adds an extra
complexity layer. It's simply not worth it.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

My folders are also dynamic as you defined (excellent feature in SB
BTW)

So or I extract to temp and deploy or I double up the files in script
if I understand well

It works perfectly (with doubled files) and adds no real complexity

It is just a case of having vars filled in from detected or selected
clarion versions and executing in the main loop this and that if clause

It took me something like a couple of hours to build and now I only
need to update with any new GUID SV adds for internal versions changes
to be good

As I have decided I will not support (because of dll renamings) any
"intermediary" versions (ie c7.3 when 8.1 comes out) and concentrate on
latest only - I will only need to switch GUIDs

This allows my users who *are* quite a lot to use both c6 and c7
(today) to install both versions at the same time

Moreover as this installer also installs (silently) the DMC runtime
engine from another shipped installer (made with a software called
Setup Builder - excellent tool and support btw) all is easy :

Select clarion versions
Install RT engine silently where I want it (always default UAC
compliant)
Install c6 if asked
Install c7 if asked

What is two hours of my time compared to ten minutes start all over
again multiplied by X users ?

My way of seing client support

Merci

JP

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

> This allows me to install all the C6 and C7 accessories at the same time
> in a few minutes automatically.

COOL IDEA!!

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

SetupBuilder is Windows 7 installation -- "point. click. ship"

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

Now THAT is a cool idea to ship to your users Sean ;)

Why keep for internal use such a small treasure ?

Give us a batch installer !!! <vbg> which will do the dirty work for
us.

A list with all your templates
a check box with clarion versions we want installed for each template
an EIP for our serial to be entered (which of course could be retieved
from an ini file to avoid filling each time)

ONE install button

and a cup of tea please ! B-)

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

It's a nice idea, but it's just one on a very long list of nice ideas <g>.

--
Regards,

Sean Cameron
CapeSoft
www.capesoft.com

Work Smarter, Not Harder!

[NewsArchive]

I forgot - of course one entry field for the folder to use to install
demo apps ....

When you have a nice idea - apply it.
(your users remember only good ideas...) <g>

--
Merci
Cordialement - Best regards
__________________________________________________ _____

For those who do not understand ... : "Qui bene amat bene castigat."
__________________________________________________ _____

DMC - Data Management Center : a tool to let you Migrate Import Export
Transfer your Data
www.dmc-fr.com/database_migration.html Certified by Microsoft : "Works
with Vista" & "Works with Windows Server 2008"

[NewsArchive]

Yes , but one which would save a great deal of frustration.


Sean H

[NewsArchive]

Cool

Thanks

Dan

[NewsArchive]

ha ha-

> Give us a batch installer !!! <vbg> which will do the dirty work for us.

Sean's note contains all the information to make a batch installer...
So I guess, them that have the vision have the job...

We'd like to do one, but there are lots and lots of things we'd like and
need, to do
and it seems to me that this could be done by anyone, not just us.

Indeed, maybe Charles will build it into Clarion Desktop. That was the
original
batch installer, and presumably we don't need more than one.

cheers
Bruce