SB7 freeze

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

somtimes, SB7 freezes, if I press the ALT key. Mostly, I try to move a
script line up or down and suddenly SB7 stops working.

Then I have to kill SB7 and my work since the last save is lost.

Because this is hardly to reproduce, I can't exactly tell you, what to
do, but I was able to capture the event in a screen video.

The script(s) shown in the video are attached and the video can be
downloaded here:

http://download.aidaorga.de/sb-absturz.avi

Switch your speakers on!

I'm not sure, but I guess, this happened the first time with build 3325.

Thanks for your help.

Markus

[NewsArchive]

Hi Markus,

>
> I'm not sure, but I guess, this happened the first time with build 3325.
>

Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with a specific SB build nor with your
scripts. The same ALT key issue can be seen (under certain unknown
circumstances) in all previous SB6 and SB7 versions and happens in the
low-level runtimes of the development language.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Mmh. What can we do? Since 2 month, it happens a few times each day.

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

>
> Mmh. What can we do? Since 2 month, it happens a few times each day.
>

We also get this on a regular basis. The problem is that we can't do
anything because it "hangs" in the runtime of the development language and
is out of our control :-(

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Is it possible to disable the ALT key for the menu bar? I never use this
key to open the menu bar.

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

> Is it possible to disable the ALT key for the menu bar? I never use this
> key to open the menu bar.

No, the ALT key can't be "disabled".

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

If you can reproduce the issue in your environment, you might want to
see if the following discussion thread would help:

http://www.clarion-software.com/index.php?group=11&id=45638

I had one machine in the field with this issue (compiled with C6), and
this template fixed it. I myself could never reproduce the problem. It
doesn't disable the ALT key, but it prevents the problem combination
from occurring, at least in my case.

....jack

--
********************************************
Who: L Jack Wilson
Where: ljwilson@dNiOgSiPtAaMlav.com
How: Remove Capital Letters from above for a valid email address
Why: Standard Disclaimer fits nicely here.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jack,

> If you can reproduce the issue in your environment, you might want to see
> if the following discussion thread would help:
>
> http://www.clarion-software.com/index.php?group=11&id=45638
>
> I had one machine in the field with this issue (compiled with C6), and
> this template fixed it. I myself could never reproduce the problem. It
> doesn't disable the ALT key, but it prevents the problem combination from
> occurring, at least in my case.

Thank you! We already tried this method but unfortunately, it does not fix
it.

BTW, I think you can NEVER reproduce this problem in a Virtual Machine (e.g.
VMWare) environment. You can only reproduce it (under certain, very
specific circumstances) on a "real" machine.

On one of our Win7 Ultimate 64-bit machines, I can always reproduce the ALT
key issue with a simple TEST Clarion 6 program, but not with SetupBuilder.
On two other (nearly identical) Win7 machines, the same TEST app never gives
this ALT issue. Later Clarion 7 and Clarion 8 runtimes fixed the ALT key
issue.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> On one of our Win7 Ultimate 64-bit machines, I can always reproduce the ALT
> key issue with a simple TEST Clarion 6 program, but not with SetupBuilder.

Does the ALT+ESC trick work on this machine too?

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

>
> Does the ALT+ESC trick work on this machine too?
>

Just tested it and, YES!! The ALT+ESC trick works perfectly (100%) on this
Win7 Ultimate machine. And pressing the Tab key did not help at all.

But I am very curious to know why this suddenly happens on your machine.
And it went from 'sometimes' to 'always' in just 120 minutes -- very
strange. I think we will never find out.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Thanks for the info. Is that simple TEST Clarion 6 program something you
could release? I'd like to try it on that machine (Windows 7
Professional, 32-bit) some time.

I run SetupBuilder in a virtual machine, so maybe that is why I've never
seen the problem :-)

....jack

--
********************************************
Who: L Jack Wilson
Where: ljwilson@dNiOgSiPtAaMlav.com
How: Remove Capital Letters from above for a valid email address
Why: Standard Disclaimer fits nicely here.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Jack,

> Thanks for the info. Is that simple TEST Clarion 6 program something you
> could release? I'd like to try it on that machine (Windows 7 Professional,
> 32-bit) some time.
>
> I run SetupBuilder in a virtual machine, so maybe that is why I've never
> seen the problem :-)

:-)

Sure, I have uploaded my simple (quick and dirty) test application:

www.lindersoft.com\projects\W7ALTKEY.ZIP

Pressing ALT always freeses the app on this specific Win7 machine, but never
freezes on other machines.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

404 Not found...

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

It works here in So Cal

Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com
www.twitter.com/jslarve

[NewsArchive]

>>> Sure, I have uploaded my simple (quick and dirty) test application:
>>>
>>> www.lindersoft.com\projects\W7ALTKEY.ZIP

Back slash vs. forward slash

http://www.lindersoft.com/projects/W7ALTKEY.ZIP

works.

Markus

[NewsArchive]

Markus,

> Back slash vs. forward slash

Firefox isn't that picky... it just works!<g>

--
Lee White

RPM Report Viewer.: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
RPM Review........: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
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Product Release & Update Notices
http://twitter.com/DeveloperPLUS

[NewsArchive]

Chrome can figure it out too


Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com
www.twitter.com/jslarve

[NewsArchive]

Froze up on my Win7 ultimate machine


Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com
www.twitter.com/jslarve

[NewsArchive]

Freezes on my W2008R2 too.

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

Should be:

www.lindersoft.com/projects/W7ALTKEY.ZIP

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Thanks! No lockup with the test program on my Windows Visa 64-bit SP2.

But next time I'm at that client's site I'll test it there.

....jack

--
********************************************
Who: L Jack Wilson
Where: ljwilson@dNiOgSiPtAaMlav.com
How: Remove Capital Letters from above for a valid email address
Why: Standard Disclaimer fits nicely here.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich

Freezes every time on my Win7 Pro 32-but with SP1

Regards

Daan

[NewsArchive]

Have you tried ATL-ESC? <g>

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com

[NewsArchive]

>
> Have you tried ATL-ESC? <g>
>

Not until last minute <G>

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

You mean that SB is not written in Clarion??

:)

bob Roos

> it "hangs" in the runtime of the development language and is out of our
> control :-(

[NewsArchive]

>
> You mean that SB is not written in Clarion??
>

It *is* written in Clarion <g>. But the IDE is still developed in Clarion 6
and so has the ALT key issue (under certain unknown circumstances).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich

I've found the ALT problem pops up alot on text controls with scroll bars.
Switch the scroll bars off and the frequency of ALT problems drop off, but
they still occur with fast typists/users. :-)

Cheers

Richard

[NewsArchive]

Hi Richard,

> I've found the ALT problem pops up alot on text controls with scroll bars.
> Switch the scroll bars off and the frequency of ALT problems drop off, but
> they still occur with fast typists/users. :-)

Aha, interesting! I was never able to reproduce it at will in the
SetupBuilder IDE. But in one very simple Clarion 6 test application, I can
always (100%) reproduce it on a specific machine, but not on other similar
machines. Very wired issue.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

At the moment, I can reproduce it at will.

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

Even after a reboot!

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

i guess, I've tested to much. Now it happens EVRY TIME I press the ALT
key, even if I do it on the welcome screen. Even a reboot of the machine
does not help. I can't work anymore. Help please!!!

Markus

[NewsArchive]

Hi Markus,

> i guess, I've tested to much. Now it happens EVRY TIME I press the ALT
> key, even if I do it on the welcome screen. Even a reboot of the machine
> does not help. I can't work anymore. Help please!!!

Then "something" on your machine made it worse <g>. This problem is there
for quite a few years and we did not change the underlying runtime since
April 2007. In other words, even if you rollback to previous SB versions,
this would not make a difference.

So if it happens every time now then there must be another new factor on
your machine that triggers it.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

And what should I do now?

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

>
> And what should I do now?
>

To be frank, I have no idea and I fear I can't be of any help. This known
ALT key issue is not new, but only very few users are affected. All
SetupBuilder versions released after April 2007 make use of the very same
Clarion runtime.

IMO, something on your machine changed that made this happen. In your first
post you said that "sometimes, SB7 freezes" and two hour later, "it happens
EVERY TIME". So there must be something on your machine that made it that
worse in 120 minutes.

I have not seen the "freezing" problem for at least three months on my
machine (and I am working 14 hours per day in the IDE). We did not receive
any other similar report, so it's very unlikely that a recent Windows update
causes it. Perhaps it's caused by another new or updated program that is
running on your machine?

Unfortunately, this is completely out of our control :-(

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

What's about the post from Bob Roos? Could we give it a try?

Markus Zander

[NewsArchive]

>
> What's about the post from Bob Roos? Could we give it a try?
>

Unfortunately, this method does not "fix" (or work around) it. We already
tried it last year (in February 2010).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

what post was this? :)

I see there has been a work around found -- Alt-Esc

Bob Roos

> What's about the post from Bob Roos? Could we give it a try?

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

if SB freezes, you have just to press ALT+ESC an the show goes on.

Markus

[NewsArchive]

Hi Markus,

>
> if SB freezes, you have just to press ALT+ESC an the show goes on.
>

Interesting. I searched in the Clarion6 newsgroup and found:

---
"Sometimes pressing Tab key resolves the problem but not always."
---

Glad that ALT+ESC works in your case. Thanks for the information!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> Hi Friedrich,
>
> somtimes, SB7 freezes, if I press the ALT key. Mostly, I try to move a
> script line up or down and suddenly SB7 stops working.

Markus,

Basically, any Clarion developed program still produced with Clarion 6 has
this Windows 7 ALT bug, unless a certain template fix - originally provided
by Marius van den Berg - has been applied -

HOWEVER, this template fix CANNOT be used by all Clarion developers -

I use a certain Clarion 6 Clarion Third Party product that WON'T work with
this template fix in Clarion 6 developed programs (the same C7/C8 version
of that third party product does NOT have the W7 ALT bug)

Other Clarion developers have attempted to apply the template fix -
however, for various reasons, the template fix does NOT resolve the Windows
7 ALT bug in their Clarion 6 produced programs.

But, there is an end user work around - My company provides this
information (with screen shots) at our support page.

http://www.encouragersoftware.com/support.html

"Product Scope 7 - Any Browse Window with Search Feature - Windows 7 ALT
Bug exists (XP and Vista not affected). If you press ALT key by itself -
the program will appear to freeze (not useable). Actually the program has
lost focus - to Restore - Press ALT + Escape key - then click on Program
Icon on Windows 7 Taskbar to restore Product Scope 7 operation."

Also, since the Clarion 6 template fix is difficult to find in SoftVelocity
Newsgroup messages - my company provides the Marius van den Berg fix in the
zip version of this blog (of course, the template fix itself is only useful
for Clarion language developers).

Product Description - App Data UAC Safe, MFG - Encourager Software
Internet Link - http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=120

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.9 - Encourager Software
Product Description - App Data UAC Safe, MFG - Encourager Software
Internet Link - http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=120

[NewsArchive]

>> Hi Friedrich,
>>
>> somtimes, SB7 freezes, if I press the ALT key. Mostly, I try to move a
>> script line up or down and suddenly SB7 stops working.
>
> Markus,
>
> Basically, any Clarion developed program still produced with Clarion 6 has
> this Windows 7 ALT bug, unless a certain template fix - originally provided
> by Marius van den Berg - has been applied -

Markus,

Actually, I should qualify that statement a bit - it appears Clarion 6
produced programs (SoftVelocity (http://www.softvelocity.com/) Clarion
language programs) with appframe apps development have this W7 ALT bug...

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7.9 - Encourager Software
Product Description - App Data UAC Safe, MFG - Encourager Software
Internet Link - http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=120