Windows XP - Losing sales

[NewsArchive]

I have discussed this before with Friedrich but never really found the
solution.

On all XP machines my install works but on SOME XP machines when the
application runs it just sits there in the Task Manager doing nothing. I had
thought this was because of a splash screen so I do not launch that if it is
running on XP. I believe this is far more fundamental than that.

Also when I install to my own XP test machines it works.

It seems to be that SOME XP machines are set up with such tight privacy
settings that something prevents them the application from running.

I use Require Administrator as my execution level for the install.

Being as the install does not fail maybe this is not a SB problem persay but
is there anything within SB that I should be doing specifically to allow a
manifested exe (for Windows7) to run on all XP machines?

I really do not understand this UAC stuff to be honest as there seem so many
levels where you can trapped and think it is something to do with Limited
User accounts in XP.

But basically, I need to know how to check that the exe will run on the
machine it is being installed and if not how to put a message on the install
to say this will not work.

Hope this makes sense.

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

The Microsoft Windows 7 manifest is fully backward compatible. And the UAC
related sections in the manifest are simply ignored by XP.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> On all XP machines my install works but on SOME XP machines when the
> application runs it just sits there in the Task Manager doing nothing.

BTW, what you can do is to ask the customer to start your install with the
/E command line option to enable event logging and then send you the
resulting c:\sbevents.txt file. This file should give you more information.

Just for the record: there is no XP related problem in SetupBuilder.
Perhaps the anti-virus system does not like your setup.exe and so it blocks
its execution.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Please ignore the above. I need vacation <g>

I re-read your message and as I understand it, your install application
works fine but your own application hangs. So the /E event command line
installer option can't help here.

Perhaps you can add some "logging" to your application to find out where
your .exe "hangs".

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> I need vacation <g>

Wore yourself out on the first one did you?!<g>

Welcome back, hope you enjoyed the time away.

--
Lee White

RPM Report Viewer.: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
RPM Review........: http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v11/v11n06rpm.html
Report Faxing.....: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/afe/
---Enroll Today---: http://CWaddons.com

Enhanced Reporting: http://www.cpcs-inc.com


Product Release & Update Notices
http://twitter.com/DeveloperPLUS

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

>> I need vacation <g>
>
> Wore yourself out on the first one did you?!<g>

Hehehe :)

> Welcome back, hope you enjoyed the time away.

Thank you!! We had a wonderful time with the family. But as always, too
short.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich - not a problem.

Please see my reply to Jane below as I think what I need is a way to find
out if they are running as an administrator or not using a Clarion app. I
guess maybe I need to develop a small SB script to detect this (no idea
how), write that to some log file and then call that from my app when it
tries to start up so the issue can be resolved.

Also how to set up a non administrator account in XP? Sounds obvious but I
cannot seem to do that fully and test.

BTW I know this is NOT a SB problem - just you seem to be the expert when
it comes to all this stuff <g>

Thanks

John

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

> Please see my reply to Jane below as I think what I need is a way to find
> out if they are running as an administrator or not using a Clarion app. I
> guess maybe I need to develop a small SB script to detect this (no idea
> how), write that to some log file and then call that from my app when it
> tries to start up so the issue can be resolved.
>
> Also how to set up a non administrator account in XP? Sounds obvious but I
> cannot seem to do that fully and test.

See the attached code snipped. This code can check if an account has Admin
privileges or not.

To create a "Limited User" account on XP, just do the following:

1. Start -> Control Panel -> User Accounts
2. Pick a Task... -> Create a new account
3. Type a name for the new account -> Joe User -> NEXT
4. Pick an account type -> Limited

Then just "switch" to the new Limited User account and test your software.
That's it <g>

Does this help?

> BTW I know this is NOT a SB problem - just you seem to be the expert when
> it comes to all this stuff <g>

<G> ;-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

John,

Are you using WinEvent at all?

I have an app where I use WinEvent to hide the application frame on startup.
Well, it starts minimized to the taskbar. Sometimes with this setting, my
app would start but it would not be in the taskbar. I could see it in the
task manager but nowhere else.

I turned that setting off in WinEvent and never had that issue again.

Don

[NewsArchive]

I use WinEVent but not that particular feature that I know of. Howevr the
symptoms sound identical.

Thanks

John

[NewsArchive]

MOST machines (XP included) are set up with "tighter" security than many
developers imagine.

Because in the pre-Vista world, "most" people ran their XP machines with
accounts that are in the Administrators group, it wasn't usually noticed.

You are requiring administrator for the installer, not for the app itself.

I'd try to narrow it down - are the people who have no problem running as
administrators and the others running as non-administrators?

Jane

[NewsArchive]

I THINK so Jane.

It is definitely something like that. I have tried everything in my own XP
test environment and cannot get any XP install to fail.

So if you could guide me as how to set up an XP machine that might recreate
this I can do something about it <g>

It is probably easy but whatever I try the app runs every darned time on XP.
Again Vista and Windows 7 are never a problem.

Alternatively, if there is a way in SB to test if they administrators or non
administrators that might help.

Finally it would be even better if I could somehow find that out when my app
runs. So if it fails I can tell them to send me some file which has this
logged, if you get my drift.

I am sure you are somewhere in the right area Jane.

Thanks, John

[NewsArchive]

John,

SetupBuilder can check whether a user is an administrator, but that's not as
useful for just running your app....

Bill Roe's vufiletools includes an "is the user an administrator" function
http://www.valutilities.com/vufiletools.htm

Have you done as Friedrich suggests? Create an "ordinary" user on your XP
machine, log in with that account, and see whether your app has problems?

Jane

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Jane - just what I need and will check that out. I have vuTools.

Will check out Friedrichs post of course although I think it is what I have
tried before.

But to be clear - is a NON Administrator account always going to cause
problems. In other words - should I do as Friedrich shows in his example and
not allow the install to proceed if not an Administrator account?

Thanks

John

[NewsArchive]

To be clear.

1. Always use an administrator account to install. That does not
necessarily mean that after installation, the app will be run as
administrator. (In many situations, it will not be.)

2. Know what your app can and cannot do when run (after installation) by a
regular, non-administrator user account. Permissions for such accounts vary
between XP and Vista/Windows 7. Unfortunately, that requires doing some
homework. But then, that's why programmers make The Big Bucks!

3. Create a regular, non-administrator user account on all of your test
machines. Log on using that user account, run and test your app, and make
sure it doesn't have any problems.

jf

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

> But to be clear - is a NON Administrator account always going to cause
> problems. In other words - should I do as Friedrich shows in his example
> and not allow the install to proceed if not an Administrator account?

If your application follows the Windows development guidelines, then it
works fine in "locked-down" environments (e.g. a Limited User account on XP
or a Standard User account in Win7).

But the installation always requires Admin privileges because it has to
write to protected areas. Your application should NEVER write to protected
areas.

I provided the source code snipped because you wrote that "...what I need is
a way to find out if they are running as an administrator or not using a
Clarion app. I guess maybe I need to develop a small SB script to detect
this...". You can develop a small helper tool with SB to detect an
Admin/Non-Admin environment.

Friedrich