Clarion takes over my machine

[NewsArchive]

I have been meaning to ask this for some time now.

When running a clarion app (NOT developing in the IDE) I notice that many
times my Windows Start button on the windows taskbar is not available and my
taskbar does not work. I also sometimes find that ALT/TAB does not work and
I have to minimise the app to get anywhere.

I find this particularly when using SetupBuilder.

Not that it's any huge problem but I wondered if anyone else had come across
this and what they did to overcome it. It seems to happen on most machine I
have including clients.

Saying that I just launched SB which displays these symptoms. Now while
typing this email i return to SB and it works fine. So it is pretty
intermittent.

It is as if the Clarion executable simply takes over the machine in some
way.

I am using C6 9053 but do not think that is of any importance.

Many thanks

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

>I am using C6 9053 but do not think that is of any importance.

So am I and I have never seen this, with that build or any other. I
run Clarion apps on all 5 machines I work on here in the office. They
run XP Home (2) XP Pro (2) and Vista Home Premium (1) and I have never
experienced any issues with them...

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

> I run Clarion apps on all 5 machines I work on here in the office. They
> run XP Home (2) XP Pro (2) and Vista Home Premium (1) and I have never
> experienced any issues with them...

I've never seen anything like this either and if it was a Clarion app
related issue, all of us would have had customers screaming all over the
world by now...

The only thought that comes to mind is a stupid antivirus program (such as
Norton) being "over-aggressive" and just dragging the system to its knees.

Reboot, turn OFF your antivirus, and try again (after the hour passes and
Windows has finally started everything up<g>)

Happy hunting John!

;-)

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds

www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

I have never seen this with SetupBuilder or any other Clarion application.

Friedrich

--
Friedrich Linder
Lindersoft
www.lindersoft.com
+1.954.252.3910

"point. click. ship" - that's SetupBuilder 6.6
Create Windows Vista ready installations in minutes

-- Official Comodo Code Signing and SSL Certificate Partner

[NewsArchive]

I have been experiencing something similar. When running SetupBuilder to work
on a setup program, most of the time I cannot bring up the quick launch bar or
system tray by moving my mouse to the bottom of the screen. Instead I have to
press the Windows button on the keyboard. Sometimes the mouse works but not
very often. It's just something I live with.

Peter Gysegem
Beaver Creek Software

[NewsArchive]

And you noticed the same with your own Clarion apps? As I understand it,
John sees this when running Clarion applications (not only SB).

I have never seen this here on our machines (we have 15 different machines
here running all kind of OSs). I checked our records, but we have never
received any similar report (and there are quite a few thousand SB users out
there).

What Richard said makes sense. Perhaps it's something specific on your
machine? The million dollar question is what is it?

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

I too have experienced this behavior in SetupBuilder and one or two of my
own apps.

Do you have your windows task bar set to "Auto Hide" on the bottom of the
screen?

It isn't a really big deal but I guess it could concern some users.

--
Regards,

Lee
http://www.cya2day.com

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

> Do you have your windows task bar set to "Auto Hide" on the bottom of the
> screen?

No, "Auto Hide" is disabled on all machines here (we are runing Win9x, 2000,
XP, 2003, Vista 32/64 and Windows Server 2008).

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

>And you noticed the same with your own Clarion apps? As I understand it,
>John sees this when running Clarion applications (not only SB).

I never have the taskbar hidden and I think this may have something to
do with that. I've tried it here and I have no problems with it. But
I have many times seen that the OS seems to lose contact with the
taskbar and when you click on something there it is not brought into
focus. I see this couple of times every week (no relation to Clarion
or SB or any program as far as I can tell) and I'm wondering if these
things may be related...

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Arnór,

> But I have many times seen that the OS seems to lose contact with the
> taskbar and when you click on something there it is not brought into
> focus. I see this couple of times every week (no relation to Clarion
> or SB or any program as far as I can tell) and I'm wondering if these
> things may be related...

Yes, I also noticed this very same "focus" thing. It happens here on
machines that do *not* have any Clarion app installed. I thought it's
related to our protection software (ZoneAlarm) or the wireless
keyboard/mouse.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

>Yes, I also noticed this very same "focus" thing. It happens here on
>machines that do *not* have any Clarion app installed. I thought it's
>related to our protection software (ZoneAlarm) or the wireless
>keyboard/mouse.

I don't use ZA but I do use wireless mice on 2 of my computers.
However I notice this focus issue also on my old laptop which has a
USB wired mouse. I also do not relate this to Clarion - I get this
mostly in other applications, but also in my own.

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Except for Vista which does not display this problem OMM (yet <g>), when Explorer
dies, it takes the task bar with it. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes not.
I've got some custom programs running in the system tray and even though they are
still running, they are no longer visible (if I get the taskbar back). Only a
re-boot fixes the display. But I've never heard or seen the taskbar become
non-responsive except for the keyboard until this thread.

--
Russell B. Eggen
www.radfusion.com
Skype IRC: http://tinyurl.com/2mqr2j

[NewsArchive]

> Only a
> re-boot fixes the display.

Alt-tab will get you to what is still running. If you run explorer.exe,
itll bring the task bar etc back.

But...it doesnt ever appear 100% like it is after startup.
--

Mark Riffey
http://www.rescuemarketing.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Hi John

It sounds like something installed on your system is hanging the system
perhaps as it tries to talk to the internet or sapping the resource.

What processes do you have running and is there a process running that is
taking up CPU time? Also is your machine powerful enough to run the version
of windows you run?

If this was a Clarion thing, then you wouldnt be the only one experiencing
the problem but lots of people would have reported it, my first guess would
be some sort of spyware is installed on your system or you may have a
(key)logger of sorts installed on your system.

Cheers

Richard

[NewsArchive]

Hi John -
I think I've a similar situation that only occurs within my
Clarion apps.
I have changed the Task.Bar to hide so I have to move the
mouse to the bottom of the screen for it to be visible. I
gained about 1/2-inch at the bottom of the screen and find
it that moving the mouse to the botton does cause the
Task.Bar to be displayed
EXCEPT - in my Clarion app.

The frame window is maximized so it fills the screen.
Moving the mouse to the bottom does not cause the Task.Bar
to be shown. Alt.Tab is available and I use it to move
between my app and others that are open.
From ANY other application (SB6, the IDE, open folders,
Win.Explorer, etc, etc, etc all show the Task.Bar when the
mouse moves to the bottom of the display.

I don't know what I've done to make my app behave
differently and I've not heard anything from any users so I
assume it's my machine configuration.

I'll be happy to post the answer, if and when I find it.
Until then, I just Alt.Tab and go about my business.

This is no help, but at least you can feel like you're not
the only guy on earth with the problem.

Good Luck

Guy Bernard

[NewsArchive]

Hi Guy,

>From ANY other application (SB6, the IDE, open folders,
>Win.Explorer, etc, etc, etc all show the Task.Bar when the
>mouse moves to the bottom of the display.

I do not see this on my machines. I maximize a Clarion app (6.3) and
the taskbar pops right up.

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Yes it is very strange. I have had this for about 2 years and live with it.
ALT/TAB always works but sometimes even with just a clarion app running and
no other tasks the taskbar does not pop up and the windows button does not
work. The only thing to do is to minimise the application.

It SEEMS to be maximised related so fra as I can tell.

I do not use Norton but I do use McAffee which I admit does slow down my
machine terribly but it works for me.

This is not a big deal at all but can be pretty annoying sometimes for users
who are not familar with the ALT/TAB method.

Oh well.

John

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

The condition being discussed has only happened to me when the task bar is
hidden.

On one of your machines set the task bar to "Auto Hide", run SetupBuilder,
drag your mouse down to the bottom of the screen and you should see what
John is talking about.

Like I said, not a big deal for me at least.

--
Regards,

Lee
http://www.cya2day.com

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

> The condition being discussed has only happened to me when the task bar is
> hidden.
>
> On one of your machines set the task bar to "Auto Hide", run SetupBuilder,
> drag your mouse down to the bottom of the screen and you should see what
> John is talking about.
>
> Like I said, not a big deal for me at least.

Aha, thank you! I'll check this.

But I fear there is nothing we can do about it :-(

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

>On one of your machines set the task bar to "Auto Hide", run SetupBuilder,
>drag your mouse down to the bottom of the screen and you should see what
>John is talking about.

I've tried this here on two machines and the taskbar always pops up as
it should...

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Hi Arnor,

Interesting....

This occurs almost without fail on my machine. What I have also discovered
is that once I have used the "Windows" key to force the task bar/Start
button to expose themselves the problem goes away. From that point on the
mouse will do the job properly.

I can't recall if I have ever seen this happen with any other software
except SetupBuilder and a couple of my own Clarion programs.

I don't view it as a problem at all. Just a bit annoying sometimes.

--
Regards,

Lee
http://www.cya2day.com

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

>This occurs almost without fail on my machine. What I have also discovered
>is that once I have used the "Windows" key to force the task bar/Start
>button to expose themselves the problem goes away. From that point on the
>mouse will do the job properly.

I think there must be some additional factor that causes this to
happen as I have not seen this. My client who has the taskbar hidden
has never complained about this and I have never seen it happen on
their computers when I've been there. I only use the "Windows" key by
accident<g> so that is not what is "fixing" it for me;)

I guess it's one of those curious things that happen to some and not
others. Weird...

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Hello Friedrich

More information: I see that when running SB6 in a window, and then
moving the mouse down to activate the auto-hidden taskbar, the taskbar
activates as is should but it actually opens "behind" SB6 so it appears
that SB6 runs in a "keep on top" window which ends up competing
(successfully!) with the Windows taskbar.

Regards

Daan Marais

[NewsArchive]

Hi Daan,

Hmm, no, the SetupBuilder IDE does not use any "keep on top" function.

The main SB6 window is a simple standard Clarion Frame.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Daan (and all)

My apologies.

Having started this thread this is EXACTLY what happens and I failed to
mention it.

Absolutely, SB (and all Clarion apps) seem to assume the foreground and
block out everything else.

So I thought that was some MDI switch or something somehwere that could be
set.

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

>Absolutely, SB (and all Clarion apps) seem to assume the foreground and
>block out everything else.

There is definitely something ELSE contributing to this since I have
never seen this and I can not duplicate this, neither with SB or other
Clarion apps, at least not when running on XP (Pro and Home)

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Just to clarify - I am not inmplying that SB causes this issue but it just
more noticeable. The same happens with my own software.

I tend to find that any Clarion generated app causes this issue quite
frequently whereas it tends not to happen with any other software.

My intention was to try to narrow it down to Clarion and if proven to try to
find the cause.

It is not a problem to me or clients who are used to it, but to newcomers it
is a definite point of concern.

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

I really appreciate that you posted this issue. I have never seen this and
I cannot reproduce it nor did we receive any similar report. But it's quite
interesting! Perhaps it's something in the Clarion runtimes!?

Thanks again!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

I am absolutely certain it is Friedrich. I always thought it was me and SB
is the only other Clarion program I run.

No worries but I would love to find out the answer.

John

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

>No worries but I would love to find out the answer.

Can you post a small exe (compiled local with no external stuff - i.e
the whole thing is a single exe) somewhere on a ftp (you can put it in
a zip or install or whatever:) site so I could download it and see if
it shows the same behaviour on my machines? I can not duplicate this
with anything I have.

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Arnor

I ahve done that but typically it works fine. You might say "oh well there
you go" but equally SB is running fine now also.

I will wait until SB displays the symptoms then launch my test app (one
table, one filed and wizard generated app) adn see if that works.

If not will repost here.

Many thanks

John

[NewsArchive]

Some more news which may be the cause of this ....

I just had Outlook running and NO clarion app or IDE. The same issue raised
it's head and my taskbar was either unavailable or hidden.

I have noticed very strange issues with my machine such as extreme hanging
when Word was running in the background, especially after sending an email.

Killing the Word task seems to resolve things or maybe it was just
coincidence. What I notice though is that when this happens and you minise
the app and find the taskbar then maximise the app it all works perfectly.

So this would seem possibly to be a memory issue which I know Word does
cause.

It is just that the problem seems to manifest itslef much more with a
Clarion app so perhaps there is something memory related (or thread related)
within Clarion?

BTW This machine is purposefully a low spec. 512mb RAM, 38gb HD with 2gb
free, 1.7ghz Celeron. The fact that this is low spec and others do not see
this effect could be related.

Just a thought.

John Fligg

[NewsArchive]

Hi John,

>BTW This machine is purposefully a low spec. 512mb RAM, 38gb HD with 2gb
>free, 1.7ghz Celeron. The fact that this is low spec and others do not see
>this effect could be related.

I have an old Emachine, 256MB ram, 20GB drive (well it has a 250GB and
a 120GB USB drive, but the main drive is still 20GB<g>) 3.6GB free,
1GHz Intel Celeron.

It works fine and hides and shows the taskbar even when I have a
clarion app maximized. It is a big sluggish on hiding it, but then
again it just is sluggish<g> It is running the latest updates of XP
Home XP2, updated as of whenever the latest updates came through the
wire;)

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

Hi John


I know this sounds like a silly question but do you have the taskbar option
"Keep the taskbar on top of other windows" ticked? <g>

Cheers

Richard

[NewsArchive]

My task bar is set to auto hide. The problem is that it doesn't come back when
I move my mouse to the bottom and it starts as soon as I load SB. It is not a
show-stopped but it is a little annoying. I can't imagine what could be
causing it.

Peter Gysegem
Beaver Creek Software

[NewsArchive]

Unfortunately, I cannot reproduce this on any of our machines. Also checked
this on other machines here in the building without any luck.

John noticed this with most Clarion apps so your own Clarion app may have
the same problem.

But again, I don't see it and I don't thing it's a SetupBuilder thing
because SetupBuilder just uses the standard Clarion frame.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

>But again, I don't see it and I don't thing it's a SetupBuilder thing
>because SetupBuilder just uses the standard Clarion frame.

I have been trying to duplicate this on my machines here. I generally
run programs maximized so I would notice this pretty quickly. I have
both my main machines set to hide the taskbar now and so far I have
not seen this happen once. Since some people are seeing this most of
the time and some are not at all, I suspect this may have something to
do with other programs or services that may be running.

Best regards,

Arnór Baldvinsson
Icetips Creative, Inc.
San Antonio, Texas, USA
www.icetips.com


Subscribe to information from Icetips.com:
http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php

[NewsArchive]

> Unfortunately, I cannot reproduce this on any of our machines. Also checked
> this on other machines here in the building without any luck.

I can reproduce it here on our XP machines.

However once you use CTRL+ESC to bring up the start menu and ESC out of
that - it works as expected.

I think that it is all tied in with a series of known problems that MS has
about the XP taskbar and why icons do not appear on some machines status
bar (on a reboot), but they will on the next pass.

MailWasher PRO is one that does this (sometimes the icon will not appear on
a reboot - even though the program is running)

The bad news is that there is no definite fix that I can find and no way to
detect exactly what combo is causing it.


Charles

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds

www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

OK an equally silly question <g>

YES I do. But I have never really understood the taskbar settings to be
honest. It always seems to behave so erratically.

Keeping on top, locking etc.

HTH

John

[NewsArchive]

Hi John

Have you tried deselecting it and reselecting it?

What happens when you press Ctrl + Esc does the start menu get hidden?

Cheers

Richard

[NewsArchive]

Hi Charles

Yes I think you are spot on.

I have been trying for a year to pin point it and come to the conclusion
that it was an MS problem but just seemed curious it seemed to happen more
with Clarion apps than anything.

I wish I had never started this thread now <g> but at least when a user
complains I can blame MS!

Interesting.

John