Install that knows about C11.1

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

Any idea when a version will be available that recognizes 11.1?

--
Lee White

RPM Report Preview: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Creative Reporting: http://www.CreativeReporting.com

Hydrogen, the only CLEAN fuel and the future of clean air.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Lee,

>
> Any idea when a version will be available that recognizes 11.1?
>

it's already available ;-)

The new build #6976 can detect C11.0 and C11.1 (and adds preliminary
built-in support for Windows Server 2022).

I have backported these features from the upcoming SetupBuilder 2022 to
SetupBuilder 2019.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> it's already available ;-)


Sneaky! THANK YOU!

Lee White

[NewsArchive]

I've tweaked my installer, and when the detection screen appears, it
shows 11.1, but no longer shows 11. Are the two mutually exclusive?

Mike Hanson

[NewsArchive]

Hi Mike,

> I've tweaked my installer, and when the detection screen appears, it
> shows 11.1, but no longer shows 11. Are the two mutually exclusive?

Because C11.0 and C11.1 share the *SAME* Product GUID, from the installation
point-of-view they can't coexist on the same machine. Similar to Visual
Studio 2019 - you can only have one VS 2019 version installed. But C11.1
*replaces* C11.0.

The last Clarion 11.x install always overwrites the previous installation
details. If you go to Windows "App and Features" you'll only see one
Uninstall entry for Clarion 11. With two different Product GUIDs (means:
two different versions CAN co-exist) you would see two Uninstall entries
(for C11.0 and C11.1).

IIRC, we had a similar scenario with C7.1 and C7.2.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich, Mike,

> Because C11.0 and C11.1 share the *SAME* Product GUID, from the installation
> point-of-view they can't coexist on the same machine. Similar to Visual
> Studio 2019 - you can only have one VS 2019 version installed. But C11.1
> *replaces* C11.0.

Maybe it's just me but that sounds like an oversight on SV's part. The
RTL's changed, new GUID's should have been used. I know my 3rd party
installs got new GUID's for C11.1.... it's just easier that way!<g>

--
Lee White

RPM Report Preview: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Creative Reporting: http://www.CreativeReporting.com

Hydrogen, the only CLEAN fuel and the future of clean air.

[NewsArchive]

Quite!

Mike

[NewsArchive]

> Maybe it's just me but that sounds like an oversight on SV's part. The
> RTL's changed, new GUID's should have been used. I know my 3rd party
> installs got new GUID's for C11.1.... it's just easier that way!<g>

The problem is that most?! Clarion 11.0 users already installed the C11.1
"update".

What happened is the following (see attached screenshot). Let us assume, we
already had C11.0 installed. The new C11.1 installation *REPLACES* the
C11.0 installation configuration with C11.1. As a result, you only have
"Clarion 11.1" registered with Windows - the C11.0 footprint is history now.
You can't uninstall C11.0 from the "Apps & features" panel any longer and
Clarion auto-detection can NOT detect C11.0.

Okay, now let's uninstall C11.1. Magic - Clarion 11.0 is back ;-) You see
it in the "Apps & features" panel and Clarion autodetection sees C11.0
again.

If the 3rd-party community is interested I will try to develop a mechanism
to detect C11.0 and C11.1 based on uninstall .log information. What do you
think? A comment from CapeSoft would also be appreciated!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> If the 3rd-party community is interested I will try to develop a mechanism
> to detect C11.0 and C11.1 based on uninstall .log information. What do
> you think? A comment from CapeSoft would also be appreciated!

Additional information: in theory, this lets you auto-detect co-existing
versions of C11.0 and C11.1 (even if the Product GUID is identical).

@Lee: if you have several different C11.0 and C11.1 build installed, could
you please send me your C11.1 "ClarionProperties.xml" (please remove your
serial numbers first) to friedrich@lindersoft.com.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> Additional information: in theory, this lets you auto-detect co-existing
> versions of C11.0 and C11.1 (even if the Product GUID is identical).

This is not an issue for me since I have version specific installs and
don't use the dialog others are referring to. However I do use the
script option to verify whether Clarion 11.0 or Clarion 11.1 are
installed to retrieve folder information.

> @Lee: if you have several different C11.0 and C11.1 build installed, could
> you please send me your C11.1 "ClarionProperties.xml" (please remove your
> serial numbers first) to friedrich@lindersoft.com.

I emailed both the C11.0 and C11.1 ClarionProperties.xml.

--
Lee White

RPM Report Preview: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Creative Reporting: http://www.CreativeReporting.com

Hydrogen, the only CLEAN fuel and the future of clean air.

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

> This is not an issue for me since I have version specific installs and
> don't use the dialog others are referring to. However I do use the
> script option to verify whether Clarion 11.0 or Clarion 11.1 are
> installed to retrieve folder information.

Okay, I understand! I think it should be possible to add a workaround here.
I'll try to upload a SetupBuilder test version this coming weekend. I have
to give it some more thoughts first.

BTW, did you ever use the /DisableAuto feature? See my reply to Bruce
below.

>> @Lee: if you have several different C11.0 and C11.1 build installed,
>> could
>> you please send me your C11.1 "ClarionProperties.xml" (please remove your
>> serial numbers first) to friedrich@lindersoft.com.
>
> I emailed both the C11.0 and C11.1 ClarionProperties.xml.

Thank you!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> BTW, did you ever use the /DisableAuto feature? See my reply to Bruce
> below.

Honestly, no, I just learned about it a few minutes ago!<g>

--
Lee White

RPM Report Preview: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Creative Reporting: http://www.CreativeReporting.com

Hydrogen, the only CLEAN fuel and the future of clean air.

[NewsArchive]

Lee,

>> BTW, did you ever use the /DisableAuto feature? See my reply to Bruce
>> below.
>
> Honestly, no, I just learned about it a few minutes ago!<g>

<vbg> ;-)

The cool thing is, you can support both traditional Clarion auto-detection
*AND* Clarion multi-build selection from the very same setup.exe.

By default, Clarion auto-detection is active. But you can switch the
installer from auto-detection to manual multi-build detection (using a
command line switch -or- your own dialog, etc.).

I can develop and post a demo project if you are interested.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Friedrich,

> The cool thing is, you can support both traditional Clarion auto-detection
> *AND* Clarion multi-build selection from the very same setup.exe.
>
> By default, Clarion auto-detection is active. But you can switch the
> installer from auto-detection to manual multi-build detection (using a
> command line switch -or- your own dialog, etc.).
>
> I can develop and post a demo project if you are interested.

I use the "If Clarion" to get the path but I also have always provided
that path on a dialog to allow it to be altered if necessary.

--
Lee White

RPM Report Preview: http://www.cwaddons.com/products/rpm/
Creative Reporting: http://www.CreativeReporting.com

Hydrogen, the only CLEAN fuel and the future of clean air.

[NewsArchive]

My old boss often used to talk about the 6 "P"s.

>
>The problem is that most?! Clarion 11.0 users already installed the C11.1
>"update".

Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com

I will occassionally post some of my automagraph images here:
https://twitter.com/automagraph
They are mostly created with my Clarion/ImageEx app.

[NewsArchive]

Why even bother calling it 11.1 then?


Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com

I will occassionally post some of my automagraph images here:
https://twitter.com/automagraph
They are mostly created with my Clarion/ImageEx app.

[NewsArchive]

> Why even bother calling it 11.1 then?

Exactly!

Not changing the GUID makes it a rather pointless release IMHO.

They should have just left it as Clarion 11 and damn the consequences.

Charles

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds

cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com (remove the "ByteMeSpammers" to email me)

www.learnh5fast.com - Master building web and mobile apps with Clarion H5!
www.clarionproseries.com - ProDocument, ImageEx, ProScan, ProImage, ProPath
and other Clarion developer tools!
www.seal-soft.com - The xProduct Clarion templates - xWordCOM, xToolTip,
xDataBackup Manager and more!
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms - Now with PNG support!
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

I had suspected as much. Thanks for the confirmation.

Mike

[NewsArchive]

So what I'm seeing in our installs is very interesting;

There are 2 paths though our install;

1) Detect Clarion Version Automatically
If this is on , then it presents a radio button list of clarions
installed - in my case 8.0 through 11.0 (incidentally NOT 11.1 -
although I have installed C11.1 on this machine).

This part is presumably using the GUID - and I presumably have the guid
in my registry pointing to C11.0

So far this is in alignment with what y'all are reporting.

However;
2. If this option (Detect Clarion version automatically) is off, then
the next page in the install offers all versions of Clarion that we
support, regardless of what it has detected on the machine. So in this
case C8 through C11.1

when we select which version SetupBuilder reads the location from the
registry in
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\S oftVelocity\

And cunningly here, there are separate entries for Clarion 11 and 11.1

Ultimately of course we allow the user then to override whatever folder
it has detected because I typically have _lots_ of Clarion installs for
the same major version. (ie 5 or 6 Clarion 11.0 installs alone.) And the
registry only holds the most recent one, so mostly not helpful to me.

So I guess there are a couple options Friedrich - you could auto-detect
based on the registry list above, rather than the GUID. Or folk could
just allow users to specify which version they want, and where they want
it to go. Like I say, for anyone with any "MACS" versions the
auto-detection is useless anyway.

Cheers
Bruce

[NewsArchive]

> So I guess there are a couple options Friedrich - you could auto-detect
> based on the registry list above, rather than the GUID. Or folk could
> just allow users to specify which version they want, and where they want
> it to go. Like I say, for anyone with any "MACS" versions the
> auto-detection is useless anyway.

Thank you for your feedback.

Clarion auto-detection can be disabled at installer runtime (we introduced
this in 2015). So if users have several different builds of the same
Clarion version, this is the way to go. See attached screenshots. I think
CapeSoft is using this feature.

IMO, auto-detection should also work for simultaneously installed C11.0 and
C11.1 builds. In Windows, using the same Product GUID always means a
product build replaces a previously installed build. In our case, C11.1
*replaces* C11.0. That's why the entry in Windows "Apps & features" changes
from Clarion 11.0 to Clarion 11.1 (or vice versa). Different Product GUIDs
tell Windows that the versions can co-exist on the same machine.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> Clarion auto-detection can be disabled at installer runtime (we introduced
> this in 2015). So if users have several different builds of the same
> Clarion version, this is the way to go. See attached screenshots. I
> think CapeSoft is using this feature.

BTW, the /DisableAuto option also lets you support different Clarion build
of the same version!

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

Where do we find these magic GUIDs in the Registry, and is it possible
to publish a list of them with the Clarion versions they match to?

Like Bruce I think auto-detection alone by installers is a terrible
idea and risks leaving end-users with no way of installing something
they've paid for or is available free.

Good example came up yesterday on ClarionHub see

https://clarionhub.com/t/ch-ch-ch-changes/4184

The BoTPL set now available as freeware on IceTips only uses
auto-detection of these GUIDs - which means you cannot install them
unless you have a Registry containing the magic GUID for a release
supported at the time Bo Schmitz made up his installer.
So sooner or later no one will be able to install these at all.

I don't see why we can't have a list of the GUIDs and where we need to
place them so that such installers can continue to be run.

Graham

[NewsArchive]

Hi Graham,

> Like Bruce I think auto-detection alone by installers is a terrible idea
> and risks leaving end-users with no way of installing something they've
> paid for or is available free.

Well, 3rd-party developers have full control over the installation process.
SetupBuilder is only a tool that provides different Clarion installation
options. The GUID per-se is not important. It's the logic behind all these
GUIDs and the Clarion build numbers.

With SetupBuilder, developers can create 3rd-party installs with built-in
support for:

A.) Clarion "auto-detection"

-or-

B.) Clarion "auto-detection" and "manual build selection". Auto-detection
can be disabled and end-users can select the Clarion folder (e.g. if you
have different builds of the same Clarion version installed).

-or-

C.) Clarion "auto-detection" and "manual build selection" and Clarion
independent installation. Even if no Clarion version is available,
customers can install the product.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

With respect non of that answers the question I posed
ie can we have a list of these GUIDs and where they are placed in the
Registry so end-users can still install templates etc where the
installation program is using auto-detection and the developer is no
longer around.

If we had such a list then we could add the registry keys and the old
install programs would continue to work.

Graham

[NewsArchive]

Hi Graham,

> With respect non of that answers the question I posed
> ie can we have a list of these GUIDs and where they are placed in the
> Registry so end-users can still install templates etc where the
> installation program is using auto-detection and the developer is no
> longer around.
>
> If we had such a list then we could add the registry keys and the old
> install programs would continue to work.

In Windows the App's Product GUIDs are registered here:

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uni nstall

These are the Clarion GUIDs:

* Clarion 7 - {01D4BB50-BD48-11DB-6784-067D01F418BE}

* Clarion 7.1 and 7.2 and 7.3 - {479A07C0-EF05-11DE-6DF1-18371B021649}

* Clarion 8 - {19336650-F595-11DF-72AE-06609D572CD6}

* Clarion 9 - {905A4CB0-90B8-11E2-3D6C-299385554AE1}

* Clarion 9.1 - {5FBB5960-7EDC-11E3-3D6C-05B078044AE1}

* Clarion 10 - {9B04EBD0-8ACA-11E4-4823-04D0CF9C0029}

* Clarion 11 - {40387FE0-70B9-11E8-41BB-330DD2345AF1}

The SV Clarion installer writes the installation location to the
"InstallLocation" entry. But I don't know whether Bo Schmitz used Clarion
"auto-detetion" in his installation. It's very well possible he developed
his own Clarion detetion capability.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

That's great, many thanks for your response.

Graham

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

> But I don't know whether Bo Schmitz used Clarion
> "auto-detetion" in his installation...
I can confirm that he did use auto-detection.

I whipped up a small app to write the Clarion 7 Uninstall key.
Before running it Bo's install only detected Clarion 2 and Clarion 9.1
After running it Clarion 7 was added to the list of detected versions.

Graham

[NewsArchive]

Hi Graham,

> I whipped up a small app to write the Clarion 7 Uninstall key.
> Before running it Bo's install only detected Clarion 2 and Clarion 9.1
> After running it Clarion 7 was added to the list of detected versions.

PERFECT!!!! :-)

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

> C.) Clarion "auto-detection" and "manual build selection" and Clarion
> independent installation. Even if no Clarion version is available,
> customers can install the product.

That is what we do.

Our SetupBuilder installers will even let you "dump" the install files into
a selected directory (with the "normal" target subfolders for Clarion being
created by the installer under that base folder) so that you can see what
files would be installed (and where) before you do an actual install.

SetupBuilder ROCKS !!!

:-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds

cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com (remove the "ByteMeSpammers" to email me)

www.learnh5fast.com - Master building web and mobile apps with Clarion H5!
www.clarionproseries.com - ProDocument, ImageEx, ProScan, ProImage, ProPath
and other Clarion developer tools!
www.seal-soft.com - The xProduct Clarion templates - xWordCOM, xToolTip,
xDataBackup Manager and more!
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms - Now with PNG support!
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

hi Jeff / Charles,

>> Why even bother calling it 11.1 then?

Because it is link-incompatible, it's important for users to know what
version of the DLL they need to install into whatever it is they have.
It's a lot easier to ask them "C11.0 or C11.1" than "before or after
build 13744?"

On 6/9/2021 8:04 PM, Charles Edmonds wrote:

> Not changing the GUID makes it a rather pointless release IMHO.
> They should have just left it as Clarion 11 and damn the consequences.

You haven't thought this through Charles - especially from a 3rd party
provider point of view. Firstly, the consequences of calling them both
C11 would mean massive amounts of lost time for users trying to
understand why things are broken. Some of that lost time will end up on
suppliers, some will just go with "oh it's a broken release".

In short, as mentioned earlier, it would be an installing nightmare to
install binaries before and after 13744.

By contrast the GUID in the registry has zero impact on anything apart
from "auto-detection" in the installer - which as I explained elsewhere
is largely useless for all except the simplest setups anyway.

So the GUID being the same is the least of the naming issues.

More importantly there are many other items linked to the Clarion 11.1
version - I'm thinking the iReport interface and so on. Having the
compile switch _C111_ is critical to making classe that can take
advantage of new features without having to maintain multiple files for
different clarion versions.

This somewhat flows back to some of the features released during Clarion
11.0 as well - for example, I can put function-pointer code in _C111_
blocks and know that it is available as well.

Cheers
Bruce

[NewsArchive]

I was being facetious, but I think using the same GUID was not very
guid.


Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com

I will occassionally post some of my automagraph images here:
https://twitter.com/automagraph
They are mostly created with my Clarion/ImageEx app.

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

On 6/10/2021 07:38 AM, Friedrich Linder wrote:
>
> Okay, I understand! I think it should be possible to add a workaround here.
> I'll try to upload a SetupBuilder test version this coming weekend. I have
> to give it some more thoughts first.

What I do in Build Automator is to check the
"Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SoftVelocity" key in the registry
for the installs.

I installed 11.1 into it's own folder so they are separate and in BA I
can pick which 11.x to compile with. I always install new versions into
new folders (C:\Clarion\Clarion10, C:\Clarion\Clarion11,
C:\Clarion\Clarion11., etc.) so they are always separate.

Best regards,

--
Arnor Baldvinsson
Icetips Alta LLC

[NewsArchive]

Hi Arnor,

> What I do in Build Automator is to check the
> "Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SoftVelocity" key in the registry
> for the installs.

Yes, this key always stores the location of the last installed version.

Behind the scenes, there is more going on in a SetupBuilder installer. If
auto-detect is disabled and you manually select a Clarion version (e.g. a
specific build), the installer automatically handles Clarion version
verification. For example, if you have Clarion 11.0 located in a
"E:\ClarionElevenYada" folder then it gets correctly detected as Clarion
11.0. If your templates only support C11.1 and you try to select a C11.0
environment then installation does not continue. On top of this, it
verifies the IDE registration status. Template registration only works if
the Clarion IDE has been activated with the serial number. If Clarion is
not activated the installer can detect this and display a warning & abort
the installation.

BTW, it would not be a problem for SetupBuilder to detect all builds and
location of an installed version (e.g. 11.0.13157, 11.0.13175, 11.0.13185,
etc.). But I don't know if this would be a benefit for 3rd party
developers.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

On 6/10/2021 08:36 AM, Arnor Baldvinsson wrote:
> What I do in Build Automator is to check the
> "Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SoftVelocity" key in the registry
> for the installs.

Obviously that would be under the Wow thingamajigger on 64bit machines -
this VM is still 32bit for accessing old C6 apps.

Best regards,


--
Arnor Baldvinsson
Icetips Alta LLC

[NewsArchive]

Hi Friedrich,

> I think CapeSoft is using this feature.

I'm not sure that we are using this feature, or perhaps something
different - Geoff is in charge of the script. But I suspect we started
ignoring auto-detection long before 2015 - as I recall the pattern we
use has been set from the early days - before 2005 I think. On the first
page of the install we simply ask "auto-detect, or not". Personally I
never auto-detect, and I encourage others not to either.

While I appreciate you use the auto-detection, and then inspect the
folder and so on, ultimately we allow users to install "any version"
into "any folder". If you want to install the C8 version into
c:\whatever then it allows you to do so, regardless of whether C8 has
ever been on your machine, or the whatever folder is empty etc.

This provides forward compatibility - you can use all our non-dll
installs today in Clarion 12, or 13, or 14. It also supports
non-standard setups where things are installed into separate folders etc.

Unfortunately, over the years, some installs (PDF-Tools being the
obvious culprit) were only "automatic detection" and did not let you
specify the folder. So even though it _works_ in say C11, it cannot be
_installed_ into C11. So you have to have a set of files, which can then
be manually copied into whatever folder. It was a major pain, although
since there are no more updates for that I now have a set of files in a
folder I can just copy over anytime.

> Different Product GUIDs
> tell Windows that the versions can co-exist on the same machine.

that might be what it's _supposed_ to mean, but in the context of
Clarion it simply does not impart that information. Clarion can
certainly install 11 and 11.1 on the same machine, and also we're not
limited to a single instance.

So using the product guid as part of the install, is, IMO, not terribly
helpful.

Cheers
Bruce

[NewsArchive]

Hi Bruce,

> > Different Product GUIDs tell Windows that the versions can co-exist
> > on the same machine.
>
> that might be what it's _supposed_ to mean, but in the context of Clarion
> it simply does not impart that information. Clarion can certainly install
> 11 and 11.1 on the same machine, and also we're not limited to a single
> instance.

from my experience, most Clarion "end-users" are using the SetupBuilder
Clarion "auto-detection" feature to install and register Clarion 3rd-party
products. This feature always detects the last installed and supported
Clarion version(s). On top of this (if the 3rd-party product supports it)
customers use the SetupBuilder "manual" Clarion selection feature. For
example, if you have installed Clarion 9, Clarion 10, and multiple Clarion
11 builds 11.0.13157, 11.0.13175 & 11.0.13185 on the SAME machine, the
manual Clarion selection feature lets you install to whatever specific build
you want. You only have to choose the Clarion folder! And it handles
Clarion version and IDE registration status verification behind-the-scenes.
AFAIK, CapeSoft makes use of both detection methods.

Background: why is IDE registration status verification important?
Scenario: developer has to set up a new machine and installs Clarion 11 and
all of his 3rd-party products. But template registration fails. Why?
Because developer was in a hurry and forgot to activate Clarion 11.1 with
the serial number. Registration status verification can detect this.

A "forward compatible" Clarion installer design can be an advantage. But it
might also break products. IIRC, the Clarion 3rd-party community discussed
this 20 years ago. If an installer detects Clarion then the end-user can be
sure the product has been tested with this specific Clarion version. It's
some kind of "Compliant with Clarion X" guarantee.

Clarion 11 and 11.1 are not link compatible, so anything with a DLL needs to
be able to install the C11 -or- C11.1 version. If C11.1 does NOT replace
C11.0 then using the same Product GUID in C11.0 and C11.1 breaks the Clarion
detection mechanism. Clarion 11.0 compliant setups can install
non-compliant DLLs into Clarion 11.1. This might result in a "forward
compatibility" nightmare.

Yes, Clarion 11 and 11.1 can co-exist on the same machine. This is perfect.
But 11.1 overwrites the registered Windows installation information for
11.0 - and vice-versa. This breaks the Windows "Apps & features" section.

BTW, the Clarion 11.1.13729 pre-release installed a "Clarion 11" Desktop
shortcut. The new 11.1.13744 installs a "Clarion 11.1" shortcut. So in
early Clarion 11.1 versions, the intention was to REPLACE 11.0 with 11.1.
But the final build is more of a "new" Clarion version with it's own Desktop
shortcut - but with an old Clarion 11.0 Product GUID.

Friedrich

[NewsArchive]

Hi Fred,

On ClarionHub I had posted a Fake Setup Clarion 9 that worked with Bo Comsoft7
template Setup Builder. A Registry Monitor showed it was looking in
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uni nstall.

One thing that failed was he wrote to
C:\Users\Public\Documents\SoftVelocity\Clarion9\Ac cessory under his folder
Comsoft7\BoTpl 4.4. I had to setup "SoftVelocity\Clarion9\Accessory" or the
install failed at the end. I got all the stuff under C:\Clarion9 but not his
Public Docs.


Here's my post if you'll check it out? All I do is PUTREG and Make Dir.

https://clarionhub.com/t/fake-setup-clarion-9-to-install-older-accessory-setups-like-botpl/4231?u=carlbarnes

Carl Barnes

[NewsArchive]

>If the 3rd-party community is interested I will try to develop a mechanism
>to detect C11.0 and C11.1 based on uninstall .log information. What do you
>think? A comment from CapeSoft would also be appreciated!

I don't think this would be very helpful, as many Clarion developers I
know have multiple versions of Clarion on their machines, and many of
those were just copied from their old systems, so it's a mishmash
regardless.

Mike Hanson
www.boxsoft.net

[NewsArchive]

> Our SetupBuilder installers will even let you "dump" the install files into
> a selected directory (with the "normal" target subfolders for Clarion being
> created by the installer under that base folder) so that you can see what
> files would be installed (and where) before you do an actual install.

That should be the standard for all Clarion Accessory installers.

--
Carlos Gutiérrez

[NewsArchive]

> SetupBuilder ROCKS !!!

The understatement of at least two centuries.

Andre Labuschagne

[NewsArchive]

hi Friedrich

> from my experience, most Clarion "end-users" are using the
SetupBuilder Clarion "auto-detection" feature to install and register
Clarion 3rd-party products.

I don't know what they are using, but probably this is true. Then again
"most" just means "over 50%", the number doing manual installs is
substantial.

> You only have to choose the Clarion folder! And it handles Clarion
version and IDE registration status verification behind-the-scenes.

As long as there _is_ a Clarion version in that folder. Sometimes I
install into "empty" folders, and I expect that to work.
You'd have to ask Geoff, but I'm not sure that we use this feature - or
maybe it just doesn't get in the way of what I'm doing, which is nice.

> A "forward compatible" Clarion installer design can be an advantage.
But it might also break products.

In the sense that a Clarion 6 installer might not be code compatible
with Clarion 11 - sure it may or may not work. But, IMO, that's for the
developer to decide not the installer.

Obviously if the product is all source (or more accurately contains no
Clarion compiled binaries) then it'll work - perhaps with a minor tweak
or two.

But for the installer to _not_ install into an "unknown clarion version"
is bonkers, given the frequency with which products are abandoned and no
more installs will ever happen.

>> If an installer detects Clarion then the end-user can be sure the
product has been tested with this specific Clarion version. It's some
kind of "Compliant with Clarion X" guarantee.

When someone is upgrading an existing app to a new clarion, they don't
want a "guarantee" - they just want the app to open in the IDE. That's
the start of a process of compiling, testing and so on.

And the existance of "Clarion 11.1" in the installer doesn't mean a
whole lot. It certainly doesn't mean "test with this version" or
"compliant with this version" - all it means is "recently rebuilt install".

>> Yes, Clarion 11 and 11.1 can co-exist on the same machine. This is
perfect. But 11.1 overwrites the registered Windows installation
information for 11.0 - and vice-versa. This breaks the Windows "Apps &
features" section.

so what? I mean, sure it would be nice if SV had used a different guid,
but I mean I'm not going to abandon C11 over C11.1 just because of the
windows "apps and features" section, which I suspect "most" developers
have never ever used, much less used to un-install Clarion.

So, I guess my point is this -
All the auto-detection in the world is interesting and useful.
But when I want to install a file my way, then I want the installer to
just do what I want - install whatever I want wherever I want it to go.

I think we are arguing the same point here to some extent -
auto-detection is nice, but stopping there makes for a very poor
installer. Like all programs the installer should default to "good" but
get out of my way when I want to do something else.

Cheers
Bruce

[NewsArchive]

That's the whole thing.

>But for the installer to _not_ install into an "unknown clarion version"
>is bonkers

Jeff Slarve
www.jssoftware.com

I will occassionally post some of my automagraph images here:
https://twitter.com/automagraph
They are mostly created with my Clarion/ImageEx app.