Setupbuilder and security question

[NewsArchive]

Hi all, I am closing in on having my first ever commercial application ready
to market. I plan on buying Setupbuilder soon but am wondering if I also
need to buy a security template. I need to restrict the app so that people
can't just make copies and give them away but having always been an inhouse
programmer I have never had to worry about that before. Is that part of the
installation package or do I need to buy something? Resources are tight at
the moment so I am also looking for least expensive route. Suggestions are
appreciated. I am nearly done writing the help system for this, what a pita
that has been.

Frank

[NewsArchive]

Frank,

As much as you don't want to spend $$$ right now, get a copy of Armadillo.

Then you can use our SoftDefense templates to really lock that down.

Just factor in how much it will cost you if someone distributes a copy of
your (unprotected or poorly protected) app on the Internet and the numbers
will make sense.

Plus Armadillo makes it easy to do a demo version, control updates, etc.

The best thing is - Armadillo works.

http://www.siliconrealms.com/

http://www.softdefense.com


;-)

Charles

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Thanks Charles, I bookmarked that so I can study it. While we are talking
about installs though, what is the certification thingie that Vista
requires? The one I am thinking about is by Comodo and setupbuilder does
have the link to get that certification. Is this something I absolutely
must have or can I survive a while without it? At this time all of my
resources are in my own wallet which is getting a bit thin. I am trying to
get this thing out on the market before I go under and it will be close.

Frank

[NewsArchive]

In this new "Vista OS" world that we live in, you absolutely must have a
digital certificate (the best deal out there is the 3 year for SetupBuilder
users).

You also need to make sure that you "play by the rules" in that your app
should install under Program Files, but it should NOT write anything in or
under the program directory. That is "read only" territory these days and
when you don't follow by the rules, Windows "Virtualization" kicks in and
all hell breaks loose.

Your best bet is to use a tool like WinEvent or IceTips Utilities to get
the CSIDL location of your users "My Documents" folder and create a data
path there for your app's data. Also store all your settings there (I use
xFiles and store it in a simple XML document with a single line of code to
read/write it).

Now that your properly worn out after developing an app, I am sure that you
really did not want to have to think about all this new stuff (Digital
Certificates, Installers and Protection), but unfortunately there is no
easy way to bypass the process.

If you want your program to install correctly, run correctly and be
adequately protected from theft (casual or otherwise), then your going to
have to do a little more work and perhaps spend a few more $$$.

The good news though is that if you invest your time and $$$ well here,
then you can re-use these things over and over again.

;-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

Pardon my language, but DANG!! and thanks for the info

Frank

[NewsArchive]

> Pardon my language, but DANG!!

;-)

Sometimes the easy way to take the bitter medicine is just to toss your
head back and chug it<g>.

> and thanks for the info

Glad to help Frank.

The good news is that what your looking at is not that expensive to take
care of (even though I know that pre-release, anything looks expensive<g>)
and the work issue is more about planning than anything else.

But trust me when I say that it is easier to solve these last few issues
now than it is to deploy and then try to do damage control after the fact.

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

> Thanks Charles, I bookmarked that so I can study it. While we are talking
> about installs though, what is the certification thingie that Vista
> requires? The one I am thinking about is by Comodo and setupbuilder does
> have the link to get that certification. Is this something I absolutely
> must have or can I survive a while without it?

Frank,

In addition to what Charles said - Code signing your program EXE AND
Install files are a must in today's Vista OS world - AND including a Vista
manifest in the program EXE file is a must as well -

using SetupBuilder Developer Edition, you can easily use a single SB6
(Setupbuilder configuration file) to embed Vista manifest file in program
EXE - call a batch file to Armadillo protect and codesign your program EXE
and install EXE.

With carefully chosen tools, you get the job done in very professional
style.

Product Description - Comodo Code Signing Certificate, MFG - Comodo
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/order_codesigning.htm

This represents one of the best values in Code Signing Certificate buying
on the market today.

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

> Hi all, I am closing in on having my first ever commercial application ready
> to market. I plan on buying Setupbuilder soon but am wondering if I also
> need to buy a security template.

Frank,

Two of the MOST significant aspects of any successful commercial software
involve deployment (setup tools) and security -

and the best Setup Tools today include methods to increase your revenue
significantly such as web installs and web updates (maintenance plans are
HUGE sellers in today's market)

AND SetupBuilder Developer represents one of the best (and in the opinion
of MANY - THE BEST) - Setup Tool value today - REGARDLESS of price!

Product Description - SetupBuilder Developer, MFG - Lindersoft
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/products_setupbuilder_dev.htm

1-user License + 1-year Gold Maintenance 1 (Best Value!)

For security, many Clarion developers have turned to
Armadillo/SoftwarePassport

Product Description - Armadillo/SoftwarePassport PRO W32,
MFG - The Silicon Realms Toolworks
Internet Link - http://siliconrealms.com/armadillo.shtml

AND, LANSRAD have developed a tool - SoftDefense - current pricing is
extraordinary that will make Armadillo projects as the AD says -

"Using State-of-the-art Code Obfuscation techniques and Dynamic Runtime DLL
loading, SoftDefense gives you the ability to render your Armadillo related
code virtually invisible to Hackers."

Product Description - SoftDefense, MFG - LANSRAD
Internet Link - http://www.softdefense.com/

THREE excellent products that can work together to give you a very good
start in the commercial software arena!

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

David, thanks for the links. I like the feature set of SetupBuilder
Developer, would the other packages still be required? Developer edition
has the security for installations, so do I need the other levels as well?
Please keep in mind I have not marketed commercially before so I am not
(yet) aware of all of the pitfalls and dangers. So far though I think the
developer level is my best option for the installs.

Frank

[NewsArchive]

I'm not David, but I'll comment again<g>.

SetupBuilder Developer is the right choice for your installer needs.

However the protection aspect of it only deals with the installer itself -
not your program (IOW, once installed there is nothing to keep someone from
copying the installed files to another machine).

You can add Armadillo protection to your program quite easily. Then you
have the ability to do things like:

1) Detect (and shutdown at your leisure) if the program's protective shell
has been cracked.

2) Monitor (and respond to) situations where more than the allowed number
of concurrent instances of your program is running on a LAN.

3) Hardware lock registration codes to specific hardware (if needed)

4) Create a demo version that can run for XXX days or XXX times or XXX
whatever - then expire.

5) Have multiple certificates for the same app (making it easy to have both
a PRO and STANDARD version of the same app).

6) Have a demo program that once it times out, it displays a link that
takes a person to your website to buy the program.

7) Issue a purchase key (say good for 60 days) and follow that up with a
permanent key after you have passed any refund period you offer and/or time
for stolen credit cards to be reported.

8) Have protection that works<g>.


Don't get me wrong - other solutions work to varying degrees of success
too. But Digital River paid about $12 MILLION dollars to purchase the
technology that is Armadillo. They did that because it is proven and
because it works. The fact that YOU can have a copy of it to protect your
apps for a few hundred dollars is a helluva deal.

Our SoftDefense product takes Armadillo protection to a new level. It
actually interacts with the Armadillo project file and then generates code
that obfuscates your interaction with the Armadillo shell. The places
where a hacker would normally attack you literally disappear into the code
stream.

Best of all it does it without any work on your part since it takes care of
actually writing Clarion code to do the obfuscation and dynamic
(obfuscated) loading of the DLLs that interact with the Armadillo API.

Our next update of SoftDefense will also include a generic registration
screen that you can import as well as even more templates to make it simple
to get the most out of Armadillo in your Clarion app.


At the end of the day, ask yourself one question about these last few added
costs:

"Am I willing to give all the hard work that I put into building this app
and a lot of the potential revenue I can earn from it by doing a poor (or
budget restrained) job of protecting it?"


BTW - nothing negative in what I am telling you, just advice from someone
who has been doing this part of it for many years now.

I hope your new app is a wild success!

;-)

Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NewsArchive]

> David, thanks for the links. I like the feature set of SetupBuilder
> Developer, would the other packages still be required?

Frank,

OK, Charles, as always, gave you a very thorough reply to the questions you
asked in this message:

So, the short answer (would the other packages still be required?) IS YES!

Without reservation - definitely the Developer Edition of SetupBuilder, it
contains SO many essential bells and whistles to do exactly what you need
to ready this app for Vista.

While there are a number of choices to implement security -
Armadillo/SoftwarePassport PRO represents definitely one of the top choices
and is compartively priced to other security packages.

SoftDefense is such a BARGAIN priced (currently) tool to augment your
Armadillo security, and as Charles pointed out - the next update will make
this tool even more powerful!

And the Comodo Code Signing Certificate (with extraordinary discount
pricing when the order is started throught the Lindersoft site) IS one of
the the best code signing certificate bargains, AND you MUST get a code
signing certificate from SOMEONE!

So, while obviously, this still represents just two opinions in the present
message thread, a LOT of Clarion developers are using these same tools to
get the job done!

David

--
From David Troxell - Product Scope 7 - Encourager Software
Clarion Third Party Profile Exchange Online
http://encouragersoftware.com/profile/clarlinks.html
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
http://www.profileexchanges.com/blog/

[NewsArchive]

Hi Frank,

Have you had a look at Secwin? It makes adding licencing as simple as
possible, and also supports access control features etc. It also integrates
with Secwin Online Server so that you can provide automated online product
activation.

Have a look at http://www.capesoft.com/accessories/secwinsp.htm for more
information.

Secwin is available from Clarionshop.com for $249 -
http://www.clarionshop.com/pdetail.cfm?id=1030

--
Regards,

Sean Cameron
Capesoft
www.capesoft.com

Work Smarter, Not Harder!